Target Renegade

[Havie]

Originally Posted by 10shu

Really cool... so what kind of Amiga would this run on? a500? or AGA?

Hopefully this will work on an A500 and above as sticking to 32 colours (fingers crossed it won't be too slow as there are only a maximum of 6 bobs at one time).

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I wish something close to a "debate" was possible As it is, it's usually "the computer X I had as a kid is absolutely the best at everything. Any flaws, blame it on a port".


When in reality all these machines had their weak and strong points. Yes, that includes the mighty C64 too.

+10000000

There are only very very few people that can talk about these subjects from a calm, cool and analitc POV, it is RELIGION for most of them.

I've seen recently an awesome video explaining with great detail, very good editing, extensive data and precise explanations on why the Sega Genesis was in fact technically superior to the Supernintendo.

I felt relief for the author because nobody knows his real name and address, otherwise there would be a crowd of thousands that would give him a taliban sentence for that sacrilege

Pd: I agree also each platform has their strong and weak points, but some people just follow "trends", and the ministry of truth says for this case that it must be: C64 > CPC > Spectrum, while in fact it is not like that at all. Oh: and the best part is that most of them didn't even play on those other platforms they critizise.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Havie

Hopefully this will work on an A500 and above as sticking to 32 colours (fingers crossed it won't be too slow as there are only a maximum of 6 bobs at one time).

16 well chosen colours might give you more space, or reducing a bit the horizontal display like Sandruzzo did in Rygar

[Havie]

Originally Posted by saimon69

16 well chosen colours might give you more space, or reducing a bit the horizontal display like Sandruzzo did in Rygar

Maybe but scrolling isn't an issue as the original speccy game doesn't scroll, just shifts the screen after a number of baddies have been killed so I will only scroll when you the required number of baddies have been defeated - think Final Fight. Therefore it is mostly a static screen so shouldn't need to limit the width (I also think this is more to do with sprites).

May go to 16 colours if needed for speed or memory issues.

[Havie]

Update 5

Bug located in my sort routine so now I have z-ordering working pretty well and you can now go in front and behind things.

Still drawing all sprites from top right which is a mistake so will need to recapture them and move the handle to bottom right to make sure the z-ordering is correct (forgot about this at the beginning - had it in my PC original).

Also, I think I can use sprites to add the parallax to the game as I have in the PC version - may have to slightly modify the cars to keep the game OCS/ECS. If it were AGA, I have a lot more sprite width to play with. I may look at Earok's multiplexing code to see if I can use it in the game with the sprites.

For those with a PC who want to get a flavour of the game, an early PC demo can be downloaded here (please note - buggy and crashes out at the lift if you can get the biker). I also, for some reason, made your player walk twice as fast as the bad guys!

Space to start (I think) and arrow keys move, CNTRL punch, kick etc. Apologies for a PC demo on an Amiga board. I think the Amiga version is shaping up to be a lot better!

http://www.havsoft.co.uk/WIP%20Section.htm

P.S. Ignore terrible website - another thing on my todo list.

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by Havie

Update 5

Bug located in my sort routine so now I have z-ordering working pretty well and you can now go in front and behind things.

Still drawing all sprites from top right which is a mistake so will need to recapture them and move the handle to bottom right to make sure the z-ordering is correct (forgot about this at the beginning - had it in my PC original).

Also, I think I can use sprites to add the parallax to the game as I have in the PC version - may have to slightly modify the cars to keep the game OCS/ECS. If it were AGA, I have a lot more sprite width to play with. I may look at Earok's multiplexing code to see if I can use it in the game with the sprites.

For those with a PC who want to get a flavour of the game, an early PC demo can be downloaded here (please note - buggy and crashes out at the lift if you can get the biker). I also, for some reason, made your player walk twice as fast as the bad guys!

Space to start (I think) and arrow keys move, CNTRL punch, kick etc. Apologies for a PC demo on an Amiga board. I think the Amiga version is shaping up to be a lot better!

http://www.havsoft.co.uk/WIP%20Section.htm


P.S. Ignore terrible website - another thing on my todo list.

Thanks. Tested. First impressions:

The good:
- Smooth moves and scroll
- Good music. Sometimes it still has that "midi" feeling, but sounds good
- Good sound fx,would need more
- Graphics look detailed
- Behavior of the sprites and priorities seem be working correctly

The bad:
- Enemies are in the "suffering" frame too much time
- You can throw lots of punches without any feedback. A "swosh" fx (or punch if you are hitting them) or any other feedback would help
- Even graphics look great, color is still a bit "flat", they would need at least some volume around arm muscles, floor. At this point I was thinking: instead of color+black squared lines, could it be possible to add halfbright (EHB) mode for all the shadow zones? it would look amazing
- Behaviour of the enemies is still a bit strange: btw they don't attack, but also they either stay in shock after your hits, or recover too quickly

Keep up the good job!

Pd: There is an Amiga version of Renegade I had no idea about! (just in case it helps you somehow)

[ Show youtube player ]

[10shu]

Originally Posted by x-vision

Thanks. Tested. First impressions:

There is an Amiga version of Renegade I had no idea about! (just in case it helps you somehow)

[ Show youtube player ]

Those grainy graphics hurt my eyes…?
Such a bad use of the amiga capacity, for a commercial game it is shocking

[Havie]

Originally Posted by x-vision

Thanks. Tested. First impressions:

The good:
- Smooth moves and scroll
- Good music. Sometimes it still has that "midi" feeling, but sounds good
- Good sound fx,would need more
- Graphics look detailed
- Behavior of the sprites and priorities seem be working correctly

The bad:
- Enemies are in the "suffering" frame too much time
- You can throw lots of punches without any feedback. A "swosh" fx (or punch if you are hitting them) or any other feedback would help
- Even graphics look great, color is still a bit "flat", they would need at least some volume around arm muscles, floor. At this point I was thinking: instead of color+black squared lines, could it be possible to add halfbright (EHB) mode for all the shadow zones? it would look amazing
- Behaviour of the enemies is still a bit strange: btw they don't attack, but also they either stay in shock after your hits, or recover too quickly

Keep up the good job!

Pd: There is an Amiga version of Renegade I had no idea about! (just in case it helps you somehow)

[ Show youtube player ]

Thanks - I never got as far as sorting the enemies out properly and I can't remember how far I got with getting them to attack the player. I have a much later demo but it crashes out on loading (something to do with a missing image) but isn't my priority.

EHB might be an option for the shadows - I'll look into it back that is adding another bitplane so speed may be a concern. Saying that, not many EHB actions games (could be a reason for this) so I like the idea!

And as I said, Amiga version should be a lot better!

[10shu]

[ Show youtube player ]

[reno]

Originally Posted by acidbottle

Nostalgia is based on what you grew up with and was aware of. Very few people had multiple computers back then and quite honestly, most of the time you went with what a friend owned or what a parent bought you from the store!

Nailed it !

Originally Posted by acidbottle

There were many and numerous games that didnt even make it to CPC, my all time favourites are zzoom, scuba dive and where time stood still being examples of this.

I think each platform had their fair share of exclusives tbh. Near the end of the 8-bit micros' commercial life in the early 90s, the CPC had many exclusive ports from 16-bit games that the other platforms couldn't handle : I'm thinking about Skweek, Jim Power, Prehistorik, ShufflePuck Cafe (longer list here)

[reno]

Originally Posted by x-vision

- Even graphics look great, color is still a bit "flat", they would need at least some volume around arm muscles, floor. At this point I was thinking: instead of color+black squared lines, could it be possible to add halfbright (EHB) mode for all the shadow zones? it would look amazing

Good point, do you mean replacing dithering for the shadows with solid colours, something like, erm ... like ...

Originally Posted by x-vision

Yeah, sure! ok, let's change everything and use this "beautiful" port for an AMIGA version.

Nah, I don't think so. There's a guy here who was explaining to us earlier that "high res" monochrome sprites with dithering (the technical term for what you call "black squared lines") were superior and an easier starting point for Amiga sprites than an alternative with preexisting colours. I trust his judgment, you probably should too

Seriously now... it looks like you're starting to understand the point I was trying to make from the beginning : it's just as much work (and probably more risk of diverging from the original style) to painstakingly remove dithering and re-imagine colour where there is none, as it is to start from the opposite side : sharpening already colourful sprites + possibly adding extra gradients to make use of the extra colours at your disposal.

Originally Posted by x-vision

I could show TONS of games which would put Amstrad to real shame, showing more colors (yeah, more than 4 for each sprite), more resolution, more sound channels (with its superior AY+beeper), and of course moving a lot smoother (as usual) than a poor cpc. But I won't do it cause I don't wanna disrespect the thread and the OP, I already passed the mental age of 11, and there are lots of videos in youtube for that, so I won't answer to all those excuses and bullshit.

And this is how the truckload of smooth, colourful, superior, CPC-shaming, higher resolution 3D VR Spectrum games forever remained nameless. Such a shame !

Originally Posted by x-vision

they can't never change the fact that Spectrum had the best games catalogue, by far. Simply because it was the most successful platform in Europe*. Period.

(*for some values of "Europe" that don't include most countries in it )

Originally Posted by x-vision

Behold Alan Sugar! innovator of the century and king of the universe!!

... and a few messages later ...

Originally Posted by x-vision

And it achieved that because Sir Clive Sinclair thought "computing for the masses, not the classes" and that was precisely what people needed at that time, kind of what Amiga did later but in the high end sector.

then ...

Originally Posted by x-vision

I don't wanna enter the same old childish discussion about which 8bit platform was better, because I could write a lot of reasons on why the spectrum was the best.

Originally Posted by x-vision

No, sorry but it is not about a personale taste. He specifically state why it is technically superior

Conclusion :

Originally Posted by x-vision

+10000000
There are only very very few people that can talk about these subjects from a calm, cool and analitc POV, it is RELIGION for most of them.

Tell. me. about. it.
Mate, you're your own parody.

Originally Posted by x-vision

I've seen recently an awesome video explaining with great detail, very good editing, extensive data and precise explanations on why the Sega Genesis was in fact technically superior to the Supernintendo.

I felt relief for the author because nobody knows his real name and address, otherwise there would be a crowd of thousands that would give him a taliban sentence for that sacrilege

Oh yeah. Still genuinely not seeing the irony here are you ?

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by reno

Good point, do you mean replacing dithering for the shadows with solid colours, something like, erm ... like ...



Nah, I don't think so. There's a guy here who was explaining to us earlier that "high res" monochrome sprites with dithering (the technical term for what you call "black squared lines") were superior and an easier starting point for Amiga sprites than an alternative with preexisting colours. I trust his judgment, you probably should too

Seriously now... it looks like you're starting to understand the point I was trying to make from the beginning : it's just as much work (and probably more risk of diverging from the original style) to painstakingly remove dithering and re-imagine colour where there is none, as it is to start from the opposite side : sharpening already colourful sprites + possibly adding extra gradients to make use of the extra colours at your disposal.



And this is how the truckload of smooth, colourful, superior, CPC-shaming, higher resolution 3D VR Spectrum games forever remained nameless. Such a shame !



(*for some values of "Europe" that don't include most countries in it )



... and a few messages later ...



then ...




Conclusion :



Tell. me. about. it.
Mate, you're your own parody.



Oh yeah. Still genuinely not seeing the irony here are you ?

Yeah: you are just a poor sick and plain stupid who does not have the slightest clue of what he is talking about (including everything), but have an alarming obssesion with me (more than 10 quotes, really??). I didn't know I had a fan already but sorry: I'm not open to signing autographs or personalized photos, you must look elsewhere

Good luck with your social life.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by reno

Nailed it !



I think each platform had their fair share of exclusives tbh. Near the end of the 8-bit micros' commercial life in the early 90s, the CPC had many exclusive ports from 16-bit games that the other platforms couldn't handle : I'm thinking about Skweek, Jim Power, Prehistorik, ShufflePuck Cafe (longer list here)

Correct, anyway, quite a number of them never saw light of the day either on ZX or C64.

[Havie]

Update 6

Spent a little bit more time on the game this weekend.

Realised that as z-ordering is based on Y position of bobs, that when you jump in the air, you disappear behind baddies as you move above them which rather ruins the pseudo 3d effect. For once, this was easy to solve as instead of reducing the Y coordinate of your player to create the jump, you just keep Y the same and use an offset variable instead. Works perfectly but need to remember this when coding the collision detection!

Also, have initial collision detection working (just the punch for now) but realised that I have to rethink slightly as I have an array which holds the baddies variables and then sort the baddies and player in another array to set up the z-order. Problem is that the sorted array isn't matching the original array (obviously) so when detecting collisions, wrong baddy is detected! Again, simple to fix as just need to include all the baddie variables (and not just Y position and type of baddie) in the z-order array so when the Y values are sorted, the associated baddy variables are sorted too! I may be able to get away with one array eventually?

Coming on reasonably well so hope to have a video quite soon (when there is something to really see rather than a player just wandering around and doing some moves).

Also, sped up the punch animation which looks better to me but others can be the judge of this later.

Update 7 soon...

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by reno

CPC had many exclusive ports from 16-bit games that the other platforms couldn't handle : I'm thinking about Skweek, Jim Power, Prehistorik, ShufflePuck Cafe (longer list here)

Really?
Do Yo know that Commodore 64 have also many "exclusive 8bit" (and even exclusive overally) versions of games? But these games are mostly not with jerking scrolling and tragic animation like almost all CPC versions, but almost all C64 versions are fluent and smooth. Show me on CPC as dynamic game as e.g. Mayhem in Monsterland.
[ Show youtube player ]

So, please, leave out as senseless sentences like "other platforms couldn't handle", because it's without rational proofs.

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

Really?
Do Yo know that Commodore 64 have also many "exclusive 8bit" (and even exclusive overally) versions of games? But these games are mostly not with jerking scrolling and tragic animation like almost all CPC versions, but almost all C64 versions are fluent and smooth. Show me on CPC as dynamic game as e.g. Mayhem in Monsterland.
[ Show youtube player ]

So, please, leave out as senseless sentences like "other platforms couldn't handle", because it's without rational proofs.

Or soulless 1&2, or Another world, etc...

I didn't want to ruin the thread, but sadly as usual by SOME (just some) Amstrad users, they can't stand other platforms have better features than "theirs", so they keep trying to bully annoying others with silly claims.

The funny thing is: have you seen the cited games? those supposed gems "other platforms couldn't handle"? because I did. Some laughs ahead:

[ Show youtube player ]

[ Show youtube player ]

Following ones are ok, but nothing other 8bit platforms couldn't handle. At all.
[ Show youtube player ]

(This one I think it even don't work in the 464 model, just 6128 cause it needs extra memory and diskette)
[ Show youtube player ]

Although you can see the usual blocky resolution and slideshow animation, this is what they consider "others can't handle" :facepalm:

Meanwhile I counted around 50 spectrum games that are clearly better than their Amstrad versions or directly not available but also not possible with the same features.

Sorry @Havie for the offtopic, but as they seem to never stop, this must end at some point, so they need some answers to shut them up. I was very tempted to publish videos of those Spectrum games but I thought it was not fair to the thread, but it's also a bit up to you to allow offtopics or not.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by x-vision

Or soulless 1&2, or Another world, etc...

Souless serie are new games, and by the way I think Souless (first) is worse than Draconus (on which it was obviously based). Another World is interesting case, because actually there is one game with name made Another World, and THIS Another World is still WIP.

Originally Posted by x-vision

The funny thing is: have you seen the cited games? those supposed gems "other platforms couldn't handle"? because I did.

I do, and ever I've played in these (and more) games, because I was checking CPC game library to chose which I'll left to my collection. Theere are for sure interesting games for CPC, but hardly any was "not possible on other (8bit) platform"

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by x-vision

Sorry @Havie for the offtopic, but as they seem to never stop, this must end at some point, so they need some answers to shut them up.

"Sorry, but let me just pour some more oil onto the fire". To think this endless bickering nonsense comes from 40+ (allegedly) grown ups is utterly depressing


In fact, I think we were better behaved back in the day, at least in my area. We used to poke fun at each other's machines, sure, but it was mostly friendly joshing, since we were all happy to have anything that played videogames at all, and appreciated it. And these days it seems much more mean and bitter.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

In fact, I think we were better behaved back in the day, at least in my area. We used to poke fun at each other's machines, sure, but it was mostly friendly joshing, since we were all happy to have anything that played videogames at all, and appreciated it. And these days it seems much more mean and bitter.

Yep, can't we just agree they were all shit?

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

"Sorry, but let me just pour some more oil onto the fire". To think this endless bickering nonsense comes from 40+ (allegedly) grown ups is utterly depressing


In fact, I think we were better behaved back in the day, at least in my area. We used to poke fun at each other's machines, sure, but it was mostly friendly joshing, since we were all happy to have anything that played videogames at all, and appreciated it. And these days it seems much more mean and bitter.

You didn't forget 2, 3 or 4? of my previous messages avoiding the conflict and moving on to the real subject of the thread, did you? (And also that I never say childish statements like "my platform is better" (including when I said "I ***COULD*** write a lot of reasons on why the spectrum was better" but I DIDN'T). If silence doesn't work, let's put people in their right place.

My only motivation to answer was:

1st: explain the authors decision to pick the spectrum version as inspiration for their port. A logical decision, as also the previous pc version proves, because they didn't have any restriction at all but they chose the same one. And for the reasons I already explained and that any artist would agree: filling defined but monochrome graphics with colors is a matter of SECONDS (FILL tool), having to redraw them all (including animations, backgrounds, etc... because they have a very low resolution) takes weeks or even months. Anybody with the slightest experience creating art for videogames knows that.

2nd: don't "make laughs" about other 8 bit platforms (unless you are 5), all of them have strong and weak points, and great catalogues reinforced by current indie scenes.

That's all. I already moved on from the offtopic and trying to help with the Amiga version, and BTW: I was the only one reporting bugs and giving feedback about the alpha to the team, so I invite you guys to try it if you didn't yet

Originally Posted by dreadnought

"Sorry, but let me just pour some more oil onto the fire". To think this endless bickering nonsense comes from 40+ (allegedly) grown ups is utterly depressing


In fact, I think we were better behaved back in the day, at least in my area. We used to poke fun at each other's machines, sure, but it was mostly friendly joshing, since we were all happy to have anything that played videogames at all, and appreciated it. And these days it seems much more mean and bitter.

Edit (forgotten): It was the same in my area. Some of my friends had 464, some others C64, while others had MSX so I was lucky enough to play and enjoy them all when I went to their homes, and we never had any kind of "fight" appart from some occasional joke. It seems we (I will blame myself also) get worse with time.

Originally Posted by Steril707

Yep, can't we just agree they were all shit?

LoL agree. That's why we are Amiga fans






























But Atari ST is crap!