Why don't arcade games have raster/copperlist backgrounds?

[ImmortalA1000]

Not including games that had the monitor rotated 90 degrees like Skramble, talking about later 68000 based arcade games with a typical resolution of 384x224 etc.

I was looking for a project to use as the basis for learning to use the Scorpion Engine and came across a few with dithered skies etc. Perhaps they had so many on screen colours they didn't really need it but as a real oldskool gamer from those early C64 and Amiga days palette switching backgrounds were common place.

[CCRider]

Because it looks cheap.

[jotd]

Arcade games? on amiga? on arcade machines? which platforms?

[ImmortalA1000]

From memory. Chase HQ dithers the sky using a fixed palette and also the Capcom Golden Axe knock-off called King of Dragons does the same. King of Dragons is a simple side scroller so as an Amigan I have to remove them and replace them with a single colour to save palette colours when down converting with HAMconvert utility.

I guess if you have 256 colour graphics chips etc it's not really needed.

Copperlists only look shit when some little art school dropout is designing the game's look, they look awesome when used with artistic talent like the overground start level of Shadow of the Beast and a few other games without the stupid LSD copperlist palettte lol

[roondar]

I'm pretty sure I've seen arcade games that used Copper-like background gradients. I couldn't remember them off the top of my head though, so I googled for a few minutes.

Dragon Breed has some 'Copper-like' gradients in level 1, though they use dithering. Later levels also have this, with stage five actually having a Copper-like gradient that doesn't use any dithering. R-Type 2's 3rd level has Copper-like gradients as well. Rambo III has Copper-like gradients that could've come straight out of an A500 for the side scrolling parts and Cisco Heat uses Copper-like gradients in the sky.

I'm sure there's more of these examples, but like I said - I only googled for a little bit

[jotd]

A lot of arcade hardware don't have a copper. They have a lot of colors, several palettes, tile layers, big sprites, but no copper, which could explain the lack of gradients.

But as roondar said, some do have something looking like that. I just remember Outrun and its changing sky when stage changes.

Now, it seems that your question is "why didn't they add copper gradients when porting arcade games to amiga like they did in Skramble ?"

[pandy71]

Well, lot of arcade HW used TMS34010 or TMS34020 and it was capable to perform at least line interrupt. My assumption why they rarely used Copper like approach was probably other arcade HW oddities (such as separate plane for background with limited CLUT) - usually arcade HW has more than 2 planes - in same cases 4 or even 5 separate planes combined in last stage in dedicated composer but hey are quite independent and perhaps there are other limitations in for example access (for example only during VBlank etc).

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by CCRider

Because it looks cheap.

I wonder how a multi colored gradient skyline with color changing at once could look cheaper than a plain colored sky.

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I wonder how a multi colored gradient skyline with color changing at once could look cheaper than a plain colored sky.

Because sometimes (most of the times, actually), less is more.

[gimbal]

Technically the quote is "because it looks cheap", not "because it looks cheaper" The option that a plain coloured sky looks cheap as well is on the table.

I think there is a component involved to keep the action and the player's attention in the foreground, not the background.

[Torti-the-Smurf]

I freaking love the Amiga Gradient and celebrated every Game that used it

It makes such a difference.

Just compare Turrican 1 to Turrican 2.

To jump into this rainbow after the black caves is such a delight

Arabian Nights; It´s so nice when going form the first level into the Gradient filled Forest.

Compare BONK to B.C Kid. So beautiful because of the Gradients.

I play the game "Magic Boy" basically just for the backgrounds

Such an "Amiga feature" and i will always love it

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by jotd

A lot of arcade hardware don't have a copper. They have a lot of colors, several palettes, tile layers, big sprites, but no copper, which could explain the lack of gradients.

But as roondar said, some do have something looking like that. I just remember Outrun and its changing sky when stage changes.

Now, it seems that your question is "why didn't they add copper gradients when porting arcade games to amiga like they did in Skramble ?"

They have gradients in the sky etc done with the 128/256 colour tile palettes, usually with dithering etc.

I don't know about earlier stuff like Scramble etc as they used monitors that were turned 90 degrees in the arcade cabinets and I don't know if the hardware is actually doing a vertical scroll to make the screen scroll horizontally on the turned monitor.

You don't need it I guess, even Gauntlet 1 arcade had individual 16 colour palette for each sprite IIRC reading about it.

[Retro1234]

Not Arcade but Super Mario Bros 1 SNES had a gradient.
https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php...hlight=Convert

[ImmortalA1000]

Was really talking about arcade hardware