Sprites are the weakest part of the Amiga specification

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by vulture

@Tsak

Not necessarily a fair comparison. I remember reading an amiga mag back then when Aladdin was released and the engine is the one used for Cool Spot, just updated for AGA. Not a great base to build upon imo.

Well, I'm not sure what they could have done differently. The port seems quite decent and does seem to make use of Amiga hardware (i.e. it doesn't feel to be a lazy-ass job at all). There might be room for improvements still, but given what's missing I very much doubt if a 100% rendition (or better) would be possible. Current version has no sprite huds (which makes the viewport shorter due to the upper bar), has no background parallax, less objects on-screen (f.e. several effects like the sand footprints are missing from later levels), it's less wide (I guess this was to help frame rate and also to free up all 8 sprites - duh...btw another stupid thing with AGA sprites), plus the game runs at 25fps.

Given these differences, I'm not sure if anyone would have been able to rectify all the above at the same time, even with a superior engine. Perhaps if they used dual playfield? Not sure as well.

So, my argument still remains. It seems -at best- you could only barely manage to match the Mega Drive version. And given the Mega Drive does all this (primarily) thanks to it's superior sprite abilities I feel the title of this thread is very much justified. Especially when it comes to AGA.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Well, I'm not sure what they could have done differently. The port seems quite decent and does seem to make use of Amiga hardware (i.e. it doesn't feel to be a lazy-ass job at all). There might be room for improvements still, but given what's missing I very much doubt if a 100% rendition (or better) would be possible. Current version has no sprite huds (which makes the viewport shorter due to the upper bar), has no background parallax, less objects on-screen (f.e. several effects like the sand footprints are missing from later levels), it's less wide (I guess this was to help frame rate and also to free up all 8 sprites - duh...btw another stupid thing with AGA sprites), plus the game runs at 25fps.

Given these differences, I'm not sure if anyone would have been able to rectify all the above at the same time, even with a superior engine. Perhaps if they used dual playfield? Not sure as well.

So, my argument still remains. It seems -at best- you could only barely manage to match the Mega Drive version. And given the Mega Drive does all this (primarily) thanks to it's superior sprite abilities I feel the title of this thread is very much justified. Especially when it comes to AGA.

That game's a weird one, tbh.

Seems to me almost perfect for an AGA port, because objects are usually not many but big.

If this is not dual playfield, how was the background layer done?

[Torti-the-Smurf]

I just say..LIONHEART ... sure, it is not sprite firework, but god damn, just show me hardware from 1985 that also can do that

Or the Tunnels in StarDust XD .. Ohh boy.. They are more examples,But ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE

(besides SEGA´s super scalers; they where not available for normal consumers)

I LOVED the AMIGA , always will

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

That game's a weird one, tbh.

Seems to me almost perfect for an AGA port, because objects are usually not many but big.

If this is not dual playfield, how was the background layer done?

Half the reason it runs at 25Hz is that the background layer seems to be done in a rather bit blit (if you check in WinUAE you see one frame with a gigantic blit even when nothing is going on and one with a fairly small amount - the latter is the objects I think). Seems to run in 6 bitplanes, 64 colours.

[vulture]

@Tsak

not exactly a rush job, but yes, they could've used dual playfield, use sprites for the characters and blit smaller stuff like throwing apples etc. Aladdin is still very enjoyable as it is mind you, I'm not saying it's crap or anything.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000

...

@ImmortalA1000: You are very opinionated, and what you say does not check out against facts.

No available computer had better sprites than Amiga in 1985-1992, and probably for a few years to come. I think you are confusing a computer for consoles and arcades.

Coders in Europe and USA wrote much better games than anywhere else in this era. In Asia, not only were coders plagiaristic, refusing to innovate at all cost, they took no part in any computer scene at all. That's why no Japanese games were sold for (insert every computer ever sold until 1992, and probably beyond).

Exceptions (and also not exceptions): Mass Tael Ltd. were great for Spectravideo and MSX, were based in Hong Kong. Konami supported a computer, but added sound and blitter in carts (and no sprite flicker fix of the 1979 TI-99/4A chip also used in NES).

So for the sprite chip question you need to find a computer that had a better one (we can basically extend it to 1970-2022).

Your "regional coder" opinion really is off the mark and you will have to show a bunch of great computer games titles from 1985-1992. With the wisdom of hindsight, we already know there were few coder teams in Japan, and they all worked at a console company and when the console got its hardware upgraded automatically they could do more with their sprites. That's not what being a good coder means.

That said both OCS and AGA have powerful sprites, and being a good coder is about good ideas and applying them to the hardware, and I'm sure good games can still be coded to take advantage of some great applications of it.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Photon

Coders in Europe and USA wrote much better games than anywhere else in this era. In Asia, not only were coders plagiaristic, refusing to innovate at all cost, they took no part in any computer scene at all. That's why no Japanese games were sold for (insert every computer ever sold until 1992, and probably beyond).

Sorry, but this is ridiculous on several levels. There were heaps of innovative Japanese games that started life on their computers, which there were plenty of. Eg NECs PC-8801 game library is huge. Entire genres such as action role playing or RTS were kickstarted there. And MSX was a hotbed of innovation too, far more than just one company. Starting in 1983 it had a stream of super fun and innovative games that later on trickled to consoles and also microcomputers as re-releases. The key early player here was Hudson. I played their games on ZX Spectrum, not knowing that, for example, the humble Eric and the Floaters is in fact world-famous Bomberman.



Then there is a small matter of X68000 with its custom sprite chip and arcade like performance which was unthinkable for any other computer at the time, Amiga included.

[Rotareneg]

I guess the X68000 doesn't count then because it's Asian or something? WTF?

*edit* Ah, dreadnought beat me to it by a minute. *edit*

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Photon

No available computer had better sprites than Amiga in 1985-1992, and probably for a few years to come. I think you are confusing a computer for consoles and arcades.

Not sure: if we consider the features like expansion then C64 sprites had more features than the Amiga ones; they were limited at 24x21 and not 16x screen height but those things can make a difference in some cases, like think how less sprites you would have used for parallax