Ultra Low RAM Startup-Sequence

alexh · 21 December 2004, 18:41

I've got a 2Mb Amiga and I want to boot workbench but keep the number of loaded stuff to minimum.

At the moment 400+Kbytes is used by the time workbench has loaded.

I realise that some of this goes for the Screen buffer, but if there is any hints, tips, techniques for booting and getting back some RAM I'd appreciate it.

I've tried booting with no startup sequence (in the early boot menu) and then typing loadwb.

I've tried reducing the number of workbench colours and the resolution.

Neither helped much.

I need a super skinny bootup so that I have a chance of "pre-loading" some 512k WHDLoad games.

Anyone?

Bloodwych · 21 December 2004, 19:26

I offer some tips here:

http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/tips.htm (bottom of the page)

The best way must be using the built in boot menu to boot without a startup sequence and launching from CLI.

EDIT:...or something in the startup-sequence that gives you the option of going straight into CLI - perhaps a yes/no boot menu so you don't have to keep using the mouse.

Any other way will use up ram or fragment it before you launch the game. CD32 also has 2MB - WHDload CD games must launch from CLI.

Frog · 21 December 2004, 19:58

remove everything you can have in WB-Startup. But if you've already reduce resolution and colors it should be hard to do better.
You can try to flush memory (ftp://de.aminet.net/pub/aminet/util/boot/memclear2.lha)

But as Bloodwych suggest, the best way is booting without startup and using CLI. You can then do a "tiny-startup' with only the needed stuff (Setpatch) and do : execute tiny-startup.

Perhaps WBRun (aminet) can help to launch a WHDLoad game without typing all WB argument ? i don't know if it launch an executable directly or if it looks for his icon.

alexh · 21 December 2004, 20:11

I've seen the guide. I've moved a little beyond that

If I boot with NO startup sequence I get this report from the avail

Code:

Type    Available  In-Use    Maximum    Largest
chip     1695232    400896    2096128    1694176
fast           0         0          0          0
total    1695232    400896    2096128    1694176

I then use the program "add21k" (add44k on A1200)

Code:

Type    Available  In-Use    Maximum    Largest
chip     1715728    380400    2096128    1700016
fast           0         0          0          0
total    1715728    380400    2096128    1700016

I then use "Addbuffers df0: -999"

Code:

Type    Available  In-Use    Maximum    Largest
chip     1716336    379792    2096128    1700016
fast           0         0          0          0
total    1716336    379792    2096128    1700016

I was wondering if there were any more tricks?

Marcuz · 21 December 2004, 20:26

i was more on filling a single disk to its most, back in the days. i remember also that copy paste the part of the disk that stores the preferences (don't rem the name now) in 1.3-like bootable disks was useful

Bloodwych · 22 December 2004, 15:09

Problem solved in the next ClassicWB releases.

Using the individual mouse buttons, you now have a choice of three boots:

No mouse buttons - normal with WBstartup drawer
Hold down Right mouse Button - Minimum workbench without WBstartup drawer
Hold down left mouse button - CLI with a reminder about WB run.

See the pics below.

Both the CLI and minimum boot have been fully configured for running of WHDload/AGA games. So that means all the correct paths and assigns are present.

Some tech details:

In order to allow this, I had to use rename routines on the WBstartup drawer as loadwb will automatically launch anything in wbstartup. By temporarily renaming WBstartup "WBstartupD" I can get the minimum boot option not to load programs. Upon a normal boot, the WBstartup drawer is renamed back to its former self.

This works perfectly, but if anyone knows a cleaner way of doing this I'd be grateful if you'll let me know.

Am I good or am I good?

alexh · 22 December 2004, 15:32

I am curious as to how you got 1865848 bytes of Chip Mem and a 4 colour workbench screen

If you look at my findings I couldnt get more than 1715728 and that was without loading workbench AND with only 1 bitplane active (add21k) and no RAM disk.

Are these screengrabs from UAE where you have more than 2Mbyte of ChipRAM?

Bloodwych · 22 December 2004, 15:41

ClearRAM is a script I made for the ClassicWB that removes non-essential items from RAM and then performs a flush command, finally reporting the new "avail" memory. Very useful.

Those screen grabs are from WinUAE with only 2MB CHIP using 1 disk drive, 1 hard drive and running the ClassicWB LITE. The workbench uses a manually started program "cachit" for a much better disk drive buffer so no "AddBuffers" are required in the startup-sequence - this also saves memory.

Perhaps you have large HD buffers?

Anyway, the new versions will be up once I have time.

alexh · 22 December 2004, 15:49

I've worked out what it is.... even though I am bypassing the entire startup sequence the more partitions you have the more buffers Kickstart AUTOMATICALLY allocates...

A few lines of code later to my boot menu and voila

Code:

addbuffers dh0: -999
addbuffers dh1: -999
addbuffers df0: -999

And I got

Code:

Type    Available  In-Use    Maximum    Largest
chip     1936464    159664    2096128    1700016
fast           0         0          0          0
total    1936464    159664    2096128    1700016

Loads more WHDload games will Pre-Load now

Bloodwych · 22 December 2004, 15:53

Yes that's true - HD buffers are also setup using HDtoolbox or similar utility. The number of partitions will also decide the amount of free RAM you have.

On a 2MB A1200 I'd probably only use 1 partition with min buffers.

alexh · 22 December 2004, 16:06

Heh, this is a 2Mb A600

BTW: My hard drive is 20Gig and I can only see 2Gig. I am assuming this is the old TD64 issue etc.

I'm currently using the FFS which game with Workbench3.1 disks (V40)

Any pointers on how to get it fixed? I know I need to change to a newer version of FFS, but I dunno if any of them are compatible with the vanilla 68000?

Bloodwych · 22 December 2004, 16:14

Whoops sorry!

I think most replacement file systems (SFS definitely) require fast ram and that A600 probably has 2MB chipRAM like the A500+.

Afraid I'm not sure how to get more out of that HD. I've never bothered with IDEfix etc although I do use SFS. I'm perfectly happy using only the first part of large HD's as it's always proven enough storage space for me.

lesta_smsc · 09 November 2023, 01:46

Sorry to revive this thread, but it's late at night, and I was browsing my harddrive and found a folder of apps I used on my Amiga A600 to do the same thing as @alexh !

In fact, I was only 18 years late to the scene! https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=106278

Maybe if you're still battling the situation or want to fire up that A600 again, my post may be of some use?

Anyways, the numerous files are:
add21k
Add36k
add44k
Fakemem
Fakmemb
halfnhalf
OnePlane
SubBp
SubWBplane
Turbo
WBDepth

Thomas Richter · 09 November 2023, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

Anyways, the numerous files are:

These "numerous files" you better ditch and forget. These stunts are not needed from Kick 2.0 onwards anyhow. You save most RAM by simply not echoing anything on the console because the console won't open unless you print something there. This safes more RAM than just removing a bitplane. To have a workbench with a lower RAM footprint, just use one with a single bitplane (depth = 1 in the screen mode preferences). Save the screen mode, reboot - done. No hacks needed.

lesta_smsc · 09 November 2023, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

These "numerous files" you better ditch and forget. These stunts are not needed from Kick 2.0 onwards anyhow. You save most RAM by simply not echoing anything on the console because the console won't open unless you print something there. This safes more RAM than just removing a bitplane. To have a workbench with a lower RAM footprint, just use one with a single bitplane (depth = 1 in the screen mode preferences). Save the screen mode, reboot - done. No hacks needed.

Can you post en example? Also is there anyway to execute like batch file script to flush mem before loading WHDLoad and even better if you can so this with AG-Launch doing a one-time execution?

Thomas Richter · 09 November 2023, 14:48

Which kind of an example you want to see? I mean, adjusting the screen mode preferences is not exactly black art, is it? Start IPrefs in the startup-sequence, it will fetch the data from the preferences file and place that into intuition.

DisasterIncarna · 09 November 2023, 15:08

only "flush memory" thing i know is using a simple "Avail Flush", but that onyl flushes a limited number of things, not sure how efficient that is over continual use of whdload titles or if it would even do anything, never had to try tbh.

derSammler · 09 November 2023, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

Also is there anyway to execute like batch file script to flush mem before loading WHDLoad

Yes. Either use the ExecuteStartup tooltype or use the WHDLoad-Startup script that is created in S: when installing WHDLoad.

But I would recommend simply getting more RAM. There are so many cheap FastRAM boards available these days for pretty much any Amiga. (which probably wasn't the case when this thread was started 19 years ago)

khph_re · 09 November 2023, 15:21

Won't CD32load be of use here?

Though I'm sure Alex fixed his problem Nearly Two decades ago

lesta_smsc · 09 November 2023, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Which kind of an example you want to see? I mean, adjusting the screen mode preferences is not exactly black art, is it? Start IPrefs in the startup-sequence, it will fetch the data from the preferences file and place that into intuition.

Thank you for informing me of this, I was not aware of this. I will look into it and see if it works as I intend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisasterIncarna

only "flush memory" thing i know is using a simple "Avail Flush", but that onyl flushes a limited number of things, not sure how efficient that is over continual use of whdload titles or if it would even do anything, never had to try tbh.

I was this one already, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

Yes. Either use the ExecuteStartup tooltype or use the WHDLoad-Startup script that is created in S: when installing WHDLoad.

But I would recommend simply getting more RAM. There are so many cheap FastRAM boards available these days for pretty much any Amiga. (which probably wasn't the case when this thread was started 19 years ago)

RAM was never an issue for me, I had an expansion, but it was to help others that didn't and did not want to get additional RAM when it would not be required. There is a little challenge in getting things to work with the bare minmum...

Quote:

Originally Posted by khph_re

Won't CD32load be of use here?

Though I'm sure Alex fixed his problem Nearly Two decades ago

I'm sure he has lol I hadn't even joined when this post was created and was still using my original Amiga lol.

21 December 2004, 18:41	#1
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,473	Ultra Low RAM Startup-Sequence I've got a 2Mb Amiga and I want to boot workbench but keep the number of loaded stuff to minimum. At the moment 400+Kbytes is used by the time workbench has loaded. I realise that some of this goes for the Screen buffer, but if there is any hints, tips, techniques for booting and getting back some RAM I'd appreciate it. I've tried booting with no startup sequence (in the early boot menu) and then typing loadwb. I've tried reducing the number of workbench colours and the resolution. Neither helped much. I need a super skinny bootup so that I have a chance of "pre-loading" some 512k WHDLoad games. Anyone?

21 December 2004, 19:26	#2
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I offer some tips here: http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/tips.htm (bottom of the page) The best way must be using the built in boot menu to boot without a startup sequence and launching from CLI. EDIT:...or something in the startup-sequence that gives you the option of going straight into CLI - perhaps a yes/no boot menu so you don't have to keep using the mouse. Any other way will use up ram or fragment it before you launch the game. CD32 also has 2MB - WHDload CD games must launch from CLI. Last edited by Bloodwych; 21 December 2004 at 19:36.

21 December 2004, 20:11	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,473	I've seen the guide. I've moved a little beyond that If I boot with NO startup sequence I get this report from the avail Code: Type Available In-Use Maximum Largest chip 1695232 400896 2096128 1694176 fast 0 0 0 0 total 1695232 400896 2096128 1694176 I then use the program "add21k" (add44k on A1200) Code: Type Available In-Use Maximum Largest chip 1715728 380400 2096128 1700016 fast 0 0 0 0 total 1715728 380400 2096128 1700016 I then use "Addbuffers df0: -999" Code: Type Available In-Use Maximum Largest chip 1716336 379792 2096128 1700016 fast 0 0 0 0 total 1716336 379792 2096128 1700016 I was wondering if there were any more tricks?

22 December 2004, 15:09	#6
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Problem solved in the next ClassicWB releases. Using the individual mouse buttons, you now have a choice of three boots: No mouse buttons - normal with WBstartup drawer Hold down Right mouse Button - Minimum workbench without WBstartup drawer Hold down left mouse button - CLI with a reminder about WB run. See the pics below. Both the CLI and minimum boot have been fully configured for running of WHDload/AGA games. So that means all the correct paths and assigns are present. Some tech details: In order to allow this, I had to use rename routines on the WBstartup drawer as loadwb will automatically launch anything in wbstartup. By temporarily renaming WBstartup "WBstartupD" I can get the minimum boot option not to load programs. Upon a normal boot, the WBstartup drawer is renamed back to its former self. This works perfectly, but if anyone knows a cleaner way of doing this I'd be grateful if you'll let me know. Am I good or am I good? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Bloodwych; 22 December 2004 at 16:53.

22 December 2004, 15:49	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,473	I've worked out what it is.... even though I am bypassing the entire startup sequence the more partitions you have the more buffers Kickstart AUTOMATICALLY allocates... A few lines of code later to my boot menu and voila Code: addbuffers dh0: -999 addbuffers dh1: -999 addbuffers df0: -999 And I got Code: Type Available In-Use Maximum Largest chip 1936464 159664 2096128 1700016 fast 0 0 0 0 total 1936464 159664 2096128 1700016 Loads more WHDload games will Pre-Load now

21 December 2004, 19:58	#3
Frog Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,385	remove everything you can have in WB-Startup. But if you've already reduce resolution and colors it should be hard to do better. You can try to flush memory (ftp://de.aminet.net/pub/aminet/util/boot/memclear2.lha) But as Bloodwych suggest, the best way is booting without startup and using CLI. You can then do a "tiny-startup' with only the needed stuff (Setpatch) and do : execute tiny-startup. Perhaps WBRun (aminet) can help to launch a WHDLoad game without typing all WB argument ? i don't know if it launch an executable directly or if it looks for his icon.

21 December 2004, 20:26	#5
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	i was more on filling a single disk to its most, back in the days. i remember also that copy paste the part of the disk that stores the preferences (don't rem the name now) in 1.3-like bootable disks was useful

22 December 2004, 15:32	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,473	I am curious as to how you got 1865848 bytes of Chip Mem and a 4 colour workbench screen If you look at my findings I couldnt get more than 1715728 and that was without loading workbench AND with only 1 bitplane active (add21k) and no RAM disk. Are these screengrabs from UAE where you have more than 2Mbyte of ChipRAM?

22 December 2004, 15:41	#8
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	ClearRAM is a script I made for the ClassicWB that removes non-essential items from RAM and then performs a flush command, finally reporting the new "avail" memory. Very useful. Those screen grabs are from WinUAE with only 2MB CHIP using 1 disk drive, 1 hard drive and running the ClassicWB LITE. The workbench uses a manually started program "cachit" for a much better disk drive buffer so no "AddBuffers" are required in the startup-sequence - this also saves memory. Perhaps you have large HD buffers? Anyway, the new versions will be up once I have time.

22 December 2004, 15:53	#10
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Yes that's true - HD buffers are also setup using HDtoolbox or similar utility. The number of partitions will also decide the amount of free RAM you have. On a 2MB A1200 I'd probably only use 1 partition with min buffers.

22 December 2004, 16:06	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,473	Heh, this is a 2Mb A600 BTW: My hard drive is 20Gig and I can only see 2Gig. I am assuming this is the old TD64 issue etc. I'm currently using the FFS which game with Workbench3.1 disks (V40) Any pointers on how to get it fixed? I know I need to change to a newer version of FFS, but I dunno if any of them are compatible with the vanilla 68000?

22 December 2004, 16:14	#12
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Whoops sorry! I think most replacement file systems (SFS definitely) require fast ram and that A600 probably has 2MB chipRAM like the A500+. Afraid I'm not sure how to get more out of that HD. I've never bothered with IDEfix etc although I do use SFS. I'm perfectly happy using only the first part of large HD's as it's always proven enough storage space for me.

09 November 2023, 01:46	#13
lesta_smsc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,190	Sorry to revive this thread, but it's late at night, and I was browsing my harddrive and found a folder of apps I used on my Amiga A600 to do the same thing as @alexh ! In fact, I was only 18 years late to the scene! https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=106278 Maybe if you're still battling the situation or want to fire up that A600 again, my post may be of some use? Anyways, the numerous files are: add21k Add36k add44k Fakemem Fakmemb halfnhalf OnePlane SubBp SubWBplane Turbo WBDepth

09 November 2023, 14:48	#16
Thomas Richter Registered User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Germany Posts: 3,320	Which kind of an example you want to see? I mean, adjusting the screen mode preferences is not exactly black art, is it? Start IPrefs in the startup-sequence, it will fetch the data from the preferences file and place that into intuition.

09 November 2023, 15:08	#17
DisasterIncarna Registered User Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: England Posts: 1,272	only "flush memory" thing i know is using a simple "Avail Flush", but that onyl flushes a limited number of things, not sure how efficient that is over continual use of whdload titles or if it would even do anything, never had to try tbh.

09 November 2023, 15:21	#19
khph_re Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northampton/UK Posts: 531	Won't CD32load be of use here? Though I'm sure Alex fixed his problem Nearly Two decades ago

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