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02 February 2023, 07:31
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#21 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Stupidly over-powered on AMD Phenom II X4 840/4GB ram/GeForce GT 630...
 No appreciable loss in performance dropping back to x86 ..in fact, you gotta love the way you can install on P4 x86/512mb, and just plug the drive into a couple of generations newer hardware...and it's no problem. It's a far cry from the early days of linux, when the first thing you had to do after install, was rebuild the kernel to suit your hardware...fun days. I see now, I can test the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver myself on this rig...I'll get to that later. As it stands now with nouveau drivers, there's no problems and I see it's got the HDMI audio registered as well ...and of course, then I looked at the android powered teevee in the lounge room, and went hmmmm...would ppl be looking to to use AmiDeb, as a set-top-box type of appliance?...maybe, huh...I'll check that out later as well...(there might be a case for using nvidia drivers in that usage scenario)... Anyhoo....talking about sound, debian usage, blabla...one thing consistent across multiple installs across different sound hardware, is the default value of the alsamixer master output is set rather low. There's nothing wrong with that, but non-linux user of AmiDeb need to know about alsamixer...an example comes from sounds of gnome.. *download the dms file .. http://de6.aminet.net/demo/sound/SoundsOfGnome.dms ..copy diskfile into fs-uae Floppies dir *select 6 on the AmiDeb menu to start the fs-uae launcher - by default it selects the A500 config, all you need do is change from the test disk to the soundsofgnome disk (runs fine with internal rom emulation), exit the launcher *you're then back at the AmiDeb menu, select 1 to launch the A500 profile...demo disk will load and start, double click on a song to load it, and when that happens and you can see it's playing, but the sound volume is too low *leave the emulator running, and use ctl-alt-F1 to switch back to the AmiDeb menu - select 'u' to take you to the utilities menu, then select 6 to start command shell *enter the command alsamixer and it'll pop it's ncurses interface, and by default it lands on master output, and you can use the cursor up/down keys to adjust the volume of the emulator you can still hear running ; hit Esc to exit *you can then use ctl-alt-F2 to switch back to the emulator (but good practice is to exit the shell first =) ...when you exit alsamixer, settings are saved *if you are going to pipe this to a display with sound via HDMI_audio, you'll likely end up needing alsamixer...(I'll find out later 8) Could be, given usage context, quick access to alsamixer to adjust the volume knob via a menu item, might be considered a handy utility? //yes, one could've launched the config while in the fs-uae launcher instead of quitting it =) |
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02 February 2023, 09:58
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#22 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Figueira da Foz
Posts: 340
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Is there any increase in performance/responsiveness using daneb vs a regular linux build?
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02 February 2023, 12:12
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Ummm...hmmm... that's an interesting question ~ it'd be a matter of considering how exactly to achieve the same runtime state... but at the same time it might not accurately address AmiDeb's intent.. ...for example, if I installed debian bullseye + xfce4 desktop distro, likely the only way to achieve the same runtime state, would be from grub config/menu, 'coz you don't want the distro to start up a myriad of services you're not going to need...ie; you'd have a grub menu entry that booted like AmiDeb does, and if you achieved that end, both bullseye instances would run exactly the same. Those myriads of services a normal distro starts, may rob the emulator of cpu time, and degrade it's performance 'dynamically'...it's a machination of Murphy's Law, that at the exact 0.0001 of a second in time, fs-uae needed cpu time, but some of process/service trumps it due to the fact they typically run at a higher priority ... you get this with DAWs and soft-synths as well, wherein hardware access timing becomes critical. edit: I just grabbed a clonezilla image of the x86 AmiDeb install - 750MB compressed =) Last edited by giantclam; 02 February 2023 at 14:57. |
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03 February 2023, 06:19
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#24 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 222
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Quote:
As there isn't a full x system installed, I'm having to do it another way. The changes work on a installed system, so now to test the install process to include those changes. Last edited by vk3heg; 03 February 2023 at 06:36. |
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03 February 2023, 06:28
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#25 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 222
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Quote:
All of my Nvidia card's are recent, but not the legacy or brand new type! 
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03 February 2023, 07:07
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#26 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
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03 February 2023, 07:13
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#27 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 222
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Quote:
So that class of old hardware just isn't good enough. |
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03 February 2023, 07:26
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#28 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
It's fairly horrorshow...apart from the 340.xxx-legacy driver being severely obsoleted due security concerns, the deb package is the original nvidia 96.43.23 unified driver patched to the buggery to compile on current linux kernels. The 390.xxx package is largely the same....and fwiw, those small thin client boxes capable of doing this easy, other lock you into i915 drivers...which used to be really shitty, but apparently have 2D accel working now which is likely all one needs..I'll have to buy one...i3 with 4GB should be ample grunt...(and some of these have M.2 slot)...it pays to cherry pick through the offerings... |
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03 February 2023, 10:02
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#29 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
M'kay, figured this out ...the apt target 'nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver' is a metapackage for a DKMS style driver build and install. This process fails innocuously whilst appearing to complete... .. Processing triggers for nvidia-legacy-390xx-alternative (390.157-1~deb11u1) ... update-alternatives: updating alternative /usr/lib/nvidia/legacy-390xx because link group nvidia has changed slave links Setting up nvidia-legacy-390xx-kernel-dkms (390.157-1~deb11u1) ... Loading new nvidia-legacy-390xx-390.157 DKMS files... Building for 5.10.0-21-amd64 Module build for kernel 5.10.0-21-amd64 was skipped since the <<<<---- kernel headers for this kernel does not seem to be installed. <<<<---- Setting up nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver (390.157-1~deb11u1) ... Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.31-13+deb11u5) ... Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.140) ... update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-21-amd64 Processing triggers for update-glx (1.2.1~deb11u1) ... Processing triggers for glx-alternative-nvidia (1.2.1~deb11u1) ... update-alternatives: using /usr/lib/nvidia to provide /usr/lib/glx (glx) in auto mode Processing triggers for glx-alternative-mesa (1.2.1~deb11u1) ... Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.31-13+deb11u5) ... Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.140) ... update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-21-amd64 amiga@AmiDeb-X64:~$ uname -r 5.10.0-21-amd64 ...checking through the dependency tree for nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver, nothing is marking linux-headers-xxx as a requirement, just a recommendation ~ that's how things got here. I very much doubt this is a packaging problem, as I can well imagine Debian policy including linux-headers regardless, but either way that package is mandatory if DKMS is to compile kernel modules... Ergo, prolly the safest bet is to add the linux kernel header packages to each install set, so that the instructions on debian nvidia driver install wiki actually work as expected.. *AmiDeb i386 .... linux-headers-686-pae *AmiDeb x64 .... linux-headers-amd64 BTW, apt's super cow powers kicked in the moment I issued 'sudo apt install linux-headers-amd64', and DKMS restarted from where it bailed out, and completed the module build process without error. m0000!!! |
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03 February 2023, 10:58
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#30 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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...and the winner is....previous soundofgnome test run from above, linux nouveau drivers...
 Same hardware, same test conditions, using nvidia proprietary drivers...  Where's Xorg gone?....way down the bottom 
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03 February 2023, 12:11
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#31 |
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Professional old fart!
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dumfries, Scotland
Posts: 51
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@Giantclam
I have a variety of older hardware but in the main I was thinking of a 1.46GHz Advent laptop with a Celeron M processor and 2Gb RAM and/or an old Dell Inspiron Mini10 with an Intel Atom Z530 CPU @ 1.6GHz with 2Gb Ram. Unfortunately with GMA500 graphics. The Advent runs Sparky Linux at the moment, which is Debian based, and runs it well, so will hopefully run OK with AmiDeb. @Vk3heg Thanks for this, I'll give it a whirl on both laptops and report back Last edited by OldAmigan; 03 February 2023 at 13:56. Reason: Added to specifications. Added note re Advent laptop |
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03 February 2023, 16:10
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#32 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Figueira da Foz
Posts: 340
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Quote:
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03 February 2023, 16:19
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#33 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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...man, that's catch22... twice... you'd have to install the linux-headers in --no-dep mode, or it's going to call in a lot of the same stuffs nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver considers deps... so I dunno, perhaps it's just best to append the apt command...ie; sudo apt install nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver linux-headers-xxx ...semantics, huh...
I had a hypothetical scenario in my head, which I just realized in hardware unexpectedly ~ one has to keep a relative eye...ie; the Phenom II X4 is roughly 3 cpu cores more than AmiDeb running emulator need...so you could likely get away with semperon [X2 would be better]...especially if you can get the nvidia drivers involved...it doesn't matter that the thing's overpowered, seeing the nvidia drivers make Xorg look like it was idling..that's a gain, worth more the lower end of the cpu scale you go... ..in linux with the nvidia unified driver sets, you can swap between supported nvidia gpus, and there's not usually any driver worries...installing nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver worked once linux-headers- were present, and that was to suit the GT-710 pcie card in the slot ...but what the n68-s3 mobo also has, is an onboard GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a. According to the hawdware-compat list, that chipset is supported by both the 340.xx an 390.xx driver sets, so I expected it to be a doddle to pull the GT-710 out of slot, and see how the onboard gpu runs with nvidia drivers...pffft!...it didn't... root@AmiDeb-X64:/lib/modules/5.10.0-21-amd64/updates/dkms# modprobe -v nvidia-legacy-390xx insmod /lib/modules/5.10.0-21-amd64/updates/dkms/nvidia-legacy-390xx.ko modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'nvidia_legacy_390xx': No such device ....awesome...so this nvidia driver doesn't recognize the pci_id...?...so here we are again, trying to get 340.xx from sid to DKMS without ipecac... man, this is ugly... ...wtf...hw_compat list wrong?... [ 273.556149] NVRM: The NVIDIA GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a GPU installed in this system is NVRM: supported through the NVIDIA 304.xx Legacy drivers. Please NVRM: visit http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html for more NVRM: information. The 340.108 NVIDIA driver will ignore NVRM: this GPU. Continuing probe... [ 273.556169] NVRM: No NVIDIA graphics adapter found! ...thank you very much....so, where's the last place that was spotted in the wild on debian?.....Stretch ...google the string 'nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver backports' ...this is exactly where I am at here ; at least there's some solace in knowing I'm not alone....<grin>....perfectly usable onboard nvidia chipset, less noise compared to the GT-710 pcie card...and you're locked into the nouveau drivers, which don't appear to be as resource efficient as their nvidia alternatives... you can't go near nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver with newer kernels without mungo amounts of patching... In a way, basing AmiDeb on debian 'current' looking forwardly to be 'fully update-able', limits the amount of support AmiDeb can offer to older hardware ~ although it's not really mission critical on this mobo, that old P4 @ 2.8mhz 160% load with 512mb ram + nvidia MX4000 AGP...would've appreciated nvidia driver...lol..but the problem is you end up somewhere back near debian jessie for such supports ; it is 20yo hw after all B) Still...the n68-s3 am2 socket rig is only a little over 10yo, and debian support for the nvidia onboard gpu stopped back at Stretch...and there's no easy way to get back there... ...but... you -can- get nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver to install in AmiDeb, which at least extends nvidia gpu support further back into time ...I've tested this a few times now, and found all the traps wrt a briefed debian instance like AmiDeb... *it appears the nvidia driver hardware compatibility lists may contain some errata ~ double-check you actually need/want the nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver * *this must be the -first- and only nvidia driver installed into AmiDeb ~ any pre-existing nvidia driver package install breaks this real horrorshow with conflicts * *sudo apt update * *sudo apt install linux-headers-generic * *sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid-repositories.list * *sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid-repositories.list * # Insert this line to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid-repositories.list # we created above, and save (ctl-x then press y) deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free * *sudo apt update && sudo apt install nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver * *sudo rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid-repositories.list && sudo apt update Reboot the system, and your gpu and kernel should be running the nvidia proprietary drivers...ie: lsmod | grep nvidia nvidia_drm 49152 3 drm_kms_helper 208896 1 nvidia_drm drm 495616 6 drm_kms_helper,nvidia_drm nvidia_modeset 1097728 6 nvidia_drm nvidia 18694144 184 nvidia_modeset ipmi_msghandler 65536 2 ipmi_devintf,nvidia ..if you don't see something like that, something's wrong =) Could be the hardware compat list is wrong ...try loading the nvidia module manually..ie; sudo modprobe -v nvidia Follow that up by looking at what the kernel said... ie; sudo dmesg [ 299.837305] NVRM: The NVIDIA GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a GPU installed in this system is NVRM: supported through the NVIDIA 304.xx Legacy drivers. Please NVRM: visit http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html for more NVRM: information. The 340.108 NVIDIA driver will ignore NVRM: this GPU. Continuing probe... [ 299.837313] NVRM: No NVIDIA graphics adapter found! If you see that, likely hardware compat list was wrong. As installation of this driver from sid leaves the DKMS setup in an inconsistent/polluted state, it's easier/quicker/saner to just reinstall AmiDeb, than clean the mess up. This was all taken from from here ... https://gist.github.com/oprizal/9986...19455c12b2994f ...and I've just added the AmiDeb quirk wrt headers, warnings.. =) I think there might be a valid argument for a 'static' version of AmiDeb based upon the Stretch release, to best support the machine era 2001-2012 from a nvidia proprietary driver standpoint...(and that might be the same for amd/ati drivers as well, but I didn't look =) ... ...tried to test the driver seeing as the mobo chipset had been dropped, found a geforce 7900GS...claimed to be supported by 340.xx drivers but... 4.356691] NVRM: The NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS GPU installed in this system is NVRM: supported through the NVIDIA 304.xx Legacy drivers. Please NVRM: visit http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html for more NVRM: information. The 340.108 NVIDIA driver will ignore NVRM: this GPU. Continuing probe... [ 4.356698] NVRM: No NVIDIA graphics adapter found! ...lol...what are the odds? That card would also likely work in stretch...that's 2 in a row, but I think I've run out of nvidia cards of the same era. This is why I stress, YMMV when it comes to nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver ...and unfortunately, the only way to find out is suck it and see. |
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03 February 2023, 16:25
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#34 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 222
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AmiDeb for i386 has now been released. See the website for two items of interest.
  If you have already downloaded the "beta" version, and can handle the linux command line then you don't need to re-down load the whole thing again. Just a few changes to the system are required: I'll be updating the 64 Bit version in the next couple of days. 1. Add this to a file called "amiga" in the /etc/sudoers.d/ directory: Code:
sudo nano /etc/sudoers.d/amiga Code:
amiga ALL = NOPASSWD: ALL Code:
sudo chmod 444 /etc/sudoers.d/amiga (You will *NEED* to reboot after editing the menu.sh file for the system to see the changes.) sudo killall -9 fs-uae sudo killall -9 fs-uae-launcher ie: Code:
function Amiga1200() {
sudo killall -9 fs-uae
sudo killall -9 fs-uae-launcher
echo ""
echo "Loading Amiga 1200 Setup..."
echo ""
startx /usr/bin/fs-uae -c /amiga/Configurations/amiga1200.fs-uae --fullscreen > /dev/null 2>&1 &
echo ""
tput reset
}
4: The utilities menu has slightly changed as well, with the combining of two commands and adding alsamixer: Code:
$(ColorYellow '0)') Shutdown System
$(ColorYellow '1)') Reboot System
$(ColorYellow '2)') Apt Update/Upgrade
$(ColorYellow '3)') Apt Dist Upgrade
$(ColorYellow '4)') Apt Auto-remove
$(ColorYellow '5)') Alsamixer (Sound Volume)
$(ColorYellow '6)') Start command shell
$(ColorYellow '7)') Edit WIFI/Network Connection
$(ColorYellow '8)') Create 1Gb HDF File (1G.hdf)
$(ColorYellow '9)') Create 2Gb HDF File (2G.hdf)
$(ColorGreen 'q)') Quit to AmiDeb Main Menu
Choose an option: "
read a
case $a in
0) sudo /usr/sbin/shutdown -h now ;;
1) sudo /usr/sbin/shutdown -r now ;;
2) sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade ; configmenu ;;
3) sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ; configmenu ;;
4) sudo apt autoremove ; configmenu ;;
5) alsamixer ; configmenu ;;
6) sudo -u amiga -s ; configmenu ;;
7) sudo nmtui ; configmenu ;;
8) sudo -u amiga python3 /home/amiga/hdfcreate.py -t rdb -s 1G -f /amiga/'Hard Drives'/1G.hdf ; configmenu ;;
9) sudo -u amiga python3 /home/amiga/hdfcreate.py -t rdb -s 2G -f /amiga/'Hard Drives'/2G.hdf ; configmenu ;;
q) menu ;;
*) echo -e $red"Wrong option."$clear; tput reset;menu;;
esac
}
Last edited by vk3heg; 03 February 2023 at 16:34. |
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03 February 2023, 17:13
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#35 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
You can always install and try a real-time kernel build if you want in AmiDeb...(I think, not tired but in theory it's simple as)..ie; sudo apt install linux-image-5.10.0-21-rt-amd64 It's important to reference what hardware you're using .... when you say "it never feels right" ..how do you mean? I think you meant to say it never looks right, seeing as you mention LCD monitor ...does the word 'shimmer' describe it? Talking to monitors...I just plugged in one of my samsung syncmasters ...the 19" 5:4 ratio s19a450br ... I use this on the A1200 (I have a 17" for the A500/pistorm as well) ...they're excellent displays, because the powersupply is an external brick, and this keeps the heat out of the display unit...good displays if you can find them. mostly for the 5:4 aspect and 1280x1024 native...could be just me, but seeing an Amiga on a widescreen is nigh on heathen to me B) I wanna see how AmiDeb handles that display (check it's ok)...but I'm just installing debian stretch first, to check that nvidia 304.xx driver package out... |
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03 February 2023, 17:43
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#36 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
*the other login console is on tty6 *if there's any one thing AmiDeb really excels at, it is giving meaning back to the 3 finger salute ...we Amigans are extraordinarily used to sending a ctl-amiga-amiga to reboot our Amiga ... for mine, the reboot option in the menu is somewhat redundant, as ctl-alt-del is the more effective shortcut...just saying.. *I thought about it and concluded that the menu not checking for an already running fs-uae instance and launching another...was a hidden feature for those who know their way around...lol...you could load your fav music disk.adf, launch fs-uae, ctl-alt-F1 back to the menu, and start fs-uae launcher to work on another config...with background music!!....//but really, it was an accident waiting to happen.. l8r |
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03 February 2023, 20:04
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#37 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Figueira da Foz
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Edit: Here's a playlist I created on youtube regarding the "issue" Last edited by pixie; 03 February 2023 at 21:24. |
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04 February 2023, 02:24
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#38 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
...website appears down for me... |
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04 February 2023, 02:29
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#39 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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Quote:
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04 February 2023, 03:44
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#40 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: australia
Posts: 484
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nvidia driver supports [final]
Yeah, installed debian stretch + fs-uae + nvidia 304.xx driver --- the onboard geforce 7025 was recognized, halved the X cpu load, and gained about 10% wrt fs-uae process. Likewise, I could plop the 7900GS pcie card in, it was instantly recognized and ran fine ...with a tiny gain on X load, but fs-uae was pretty much unaffected. I'll leave that here...I've got a pretty good understanding where proprietary nvidia fit into the scheme of things, and why some older nvidia chipsets aren't catered for in AmiDeb.....blowing stretch away and reimaging AmiDeb to drive (working with images is about 10x faster than a reinstall =) |
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