31 December 2020, 19:30 | #1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
|
Can The Amiga CD32 Run Perfect Versions of Capcom CPS1 Games?
I have always wondered this. I know the resolution won't be exactly the same but could it run arcade perfect Strider and Ghouls n Ghosts for example?
|
31 December 2020, 21:33 | #2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 540
|
No.
|
31 December 2020, 21:45 | #3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,893
|
Yes.
|
31 December 2020, 21:46 | #4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,893
|
|
31 December 2020, 22:02 | #5 |
This cat is no more
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 52
Posts: 8,174
|
if you have followed the recent efforts to port games arcade-perfect (Bubble Bobble, Rygar, Super Sprint, BombJack, Space Invaders ) you'd know that it's possible to do something very close to the arcade.
Ghosts'n'Goblins is very close to the original. Assassin could be considered as a Strider clone, adapted to the amiga, so yes. But noone even tried to recreate a CPS-1 game 1:1 (it's been discussed many times here) - Do we have the code ? almost. well it's 68000 code so could be adapted by binary patching - Do we have the sound & gfx ? yes we have - Can we mix them together at proper speed and with everything fitting in RAM? no, no way. CD32 seriously lacks memory to display all frames. Something that approaches an arcade perfect Capcom game is Super Street Fighter CD32. But the animation (and gameplay) is horrible because ... not enough frames that can be loaded. 2MB of chip is really too small for all the sprites. Also there aren't parallax scrollings IIRC. It's been discussed many times, the CPS-1 system is far more powerful than a standard AGA amiga (or CD32). It's designed for arcade games, and arcade games are designed for the system. So the amiga can't really compete for 1:1 ports. Even with 68040 and fastmem it would still be a challenge. Last edited by jotd; 31 December 2020 at 22:54. |
31 December 2020, 22:07 | #6 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Setúbal, Portugal
Posts: 609
|
Arcade-perfect CPS1 on CD32? 1:1 versions? Is this even a serious question?
|
31 December 2020, 22:12 | #7 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,438
|
No even close If we are talking about colors, resolution and sprites etc. You can surely do a lot better ports on an AGA machine, but they would still technically limited/cut down versions. (fit for the machine capabilities).
Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 31 December 2020 at 22:21. |
31 December 2020, 23:15 | #8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,893
|
Well - I need a new challenge after Space Invaders but a CPS-1 game is a bit of a step up! I would probably be better revisiting my port of Target Renegade for the PC but for the Amiga, as I have all the graphics in 16 colours already!
I'm guessing you could get something approaching or equaling the Megadrive versions on an A1200? And remember the Blitz basic remake of Final Fight was looking pretty good and the arcade game was on the same hardware. |
31 December 2020, 23:38 | #9 |
This cat is no more
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 52
Posts: 8,174
|
yeah Havie, take it slow Space Invaders is arcade perfect, but even Rygar (which doesn't seem too much of a game compared to CPS-1 games) was pretty hard to pull, so let's imagine a CPS-1 game!
I'd say: do what you can do as easily as possible. Personally I adapted my SDL Bagman C++ program to amiga: no logic to write, only the low level layers. And it was already a big challenge to make it run at proper speed (stil not running good on slow machines). We need more 1:1 arcade ports, not specially CPS-1. Any 1:1 arcade port is good news. The amiga (and the CD32) is a more versatile machine. It means that it can do 3D quite easily (well, polygons).On the other hand, those 2D console beasts are specialized in 2D with a lot of sprites, performant sprite hardware (so no need to "cookie cut " the background, save/restore it, the amiga can do it but the sprite size & numbers is ridiculous, even in AGA), huge ROMs to contain graphical data. You can do 3D with it but you lose the edge. So maybe Frontier would be hard to pull on Megadrive or CPS-1 too. But that's not the point. The point is: adapting games designed for a given (superior, don't mention the Atari ST) hardware is difficult. Last edited by jotd; 31 December 2020 at 23:43. |
31 December 2020, 23:51 | #10 |
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: los angeles,ca
Posts: 3,520
|
Arcade perfect no; a close replica - given time money media and assets - however yes; would be similar to Genesis /PC engine ports
|
01 January 2021, 02:56 | #11 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,438
|
The quality of the SuperGrafx version should be possible i guess.
[ Show youtube player ] |
01 January 2021, 03:33 | #12 |
Also known as GarethQ
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Twickenham / U.K.
Posts: 715
|
This sounds remarkably similar to another thread that has ended up in a troll fest....
|
01 January 2021, 12:29 | #13 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 2,549
|
Quote:
Quote:
The main thing I remember about arcade machines was constantly having to feed money into them, and feeling like the whole system was designed just to fleece me. I built a kit computer with 64x48 pixel monochrome graphics, programmed my own 'arcade' games into it, and played them to death for free! The fact that they were nowhere near '1:1' was irrelevant. It was the end of feeding money into arcade machines. |
||
01 January 2021, 18:27 | #14 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
|
Quote:
OK guys I am not trolling but just challenging and developing some ideas . What do people think about these thoughts? I would disagree trying to copy the code as a 1 to 1 match. I think it would need to be re-written from he ground up. So that's more what I'm talking about. The CD32 has some very large sprites and maybe the Copper can help (e.g. multiplexing etc) and then it has the blitter too? It must be able to get very close when pushed to the limits. (yes as people have said a very close replica is possible) I understand that the CPS1 system at its most powerful would be tough to emulate - but arcade developers don't write optimal code. Some of their code is pretty bad in fact (in terms of efficiency and the CPS1 is a powerful system at moving sprites and so their 68k code wouldn't need to be very efficient at all)) and games like Strider, Ghouls n Ghosts were the very first games made for the system. Also lets be honest the 16 bit Megadrive has great versions of both. G n G was made on a very low capacity cartridge for that system (768k!) so I'm sure it could have been a lot better. Supergrafx version = 1 Megabyte. The CD32 has 2Mb of RAM and a whole CD's worth of capacity - and it can stream graphics data in and out during gameplay The graphics data is available on the net and there aren't a huge number of animation frames in Ghouls n Ghosts https://www.spriters-resource.com/arcade/ghoulsnghosts/ According to my (legal) ROM image in MAME, the whole arcade game of Ghouls n Ghosts is 4.06 Megabytes. So that means one level's data can fit in memory easily. Much of this will be music data too maybe? (Edit: Strider arcade is 5.31 MB) Also lets say that the A500 at it's best can do a 50% accurate arcade conversion of Strider. People always say here that the the A1200,CD32 are 2 or 3 times as powerful (without additional ram).... So..... Something else I wonder - is that some arcade games run at half frame rate (at least the display code, I think the logic code runs at the full frame rate) So Metal Slug and Outrun are both 30fps. And there isn't a huge difference between that and 60fps. Most casual gamers wouldn't notice if you didn't tell them. So if you could recreate a CPS1 game at 30fps - it would still seem a pretty perfect conversion. Is this possible? Quote:
Last edited by Gilbert; 01 January 2021 at 19:18. |
||
01 January 2021, 21:36 | #15 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 2,702
|
Quote:
How's that for trolling? |
|
01 January 2021, 21:40 | #16 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,438
|
The CPS1 is highly custom made hardware. The Arcade game coder could ask for that kind of hardware, so that they were able to do the best version possible (within a price/cost effect range though). There was nothing "bad" or "inefficent" about the code.
|
01 January 2021, 22:39 | #17 |
Computer Nerd
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands
Age: 47
Posts: 3,754
|
|
01 January 2021, 22:51 | #18 |
This cat is no more
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 52
Posts: 8,174
|
Pang uses Z80 as the main processor... yeah, unbelieveable.
|
01 January 2021, 22:54 | #19 |
Computer Nerd
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands
Age: 47
Posts: 3,754
|
|
02 January 2021, 18:08 | #20 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 47
Posts: 20,420
|
Quote:
Ghouls'n'Ghosts CPS1 ported to STE and FalconThere are other, more recent videos somewhere... No way can this be done on an A500; and especially not in AMOS. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
SNES/MD Games Versus The CD32 Versions | Gilbert | Retrogaming General Discussion | 16 | 14 June 2020 22:45 |
Why Demos run in perfect resolution in WinUAE but not on real NTSC Amigas? | c0dehunter | support.Demos | 14 | 04 December 2017 16:11 |
CD32 compilation Games run on 2mb only..why can't WHDLoad games run on 2mb | spannernick | support.Games | 2 | 12 July 2017 17:15 |
WHD games AGA or CD32 versions? | fatboy | support.Games | 5 | 09 October 2014 13:34 |
Were CD32 Games Different 2 the Original Amiga Versions? | skywalka | support.Games | 6 | 11 July 2005 13:32 |
|
|