Does the AGA chipset has been fully exploited ?

[kremiso]

Another game i would have liked to see in AGA vest is surely Jim Power - the lost dimension, curious about the yeld of some cool stages as the third one on snes :

SNES stage 1
[ Show youtube player ]

SNES stage 3 (shmup)
[ Show youtube player ]

SNES stage 7
[ Show youtube player ]

it received also a decent and colorful ms-dos port at the time :
longplay PC
[ Show youtube player ]

in reality i like almost all the ports of this game (and the original of course), so i would like to see a sort of 'back to home' at some point

[DanScott]

Ha... the "Pulfric Effect" worked well on that one, but without the glasses on, that parallax is a real headache inducer

[roondar]

I think the issue with JP's parallax is mostly that it's too bright and it also might move a tad too quickly.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Ha... the "Pulfric Effect" worked well on that one, but without the glasses on, that parallax is a real headache inducer

Originally Posted by roondar

I think the issue with JP's parallax is mostly that it's too bright and it also might move a tad too quickly.

Agree with both, and also a lot of times i was killed because i was watching some bright detail in the background
but yet a great arcade style game, technically and gameplay talking

wondering if could be the perfect game to test the wider sprites AGA feature?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by DanScott

Ha... the "Pulfric Effect" worked well on that one, but without the glasses on, that parallax is a real headache inducer

That looks so weird. What were they thinking?

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by Steril707

That looks so weird. What were they thinking?

Take a pair of dark sunglasses, and look through one lens with one eye, and leave the other eye uncovered, and look at the parallax in that video (if it doesn't work, switch eyes.. can't remember if it's left or right that needs darkening)

[ovale]

What is disturbing is that the background scrolls on the opposite direction compared to other games. It is like you are are rotating around the scenery.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by ovale

What is disturbing is that the background scrolls on the opposite direction compared to other games. It is like you are are rotating around the scenery.

Yes, to enhance the PULFRIC EFFECT when using the supplied glasses

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by ovale

...It is like you are are rotating around the scenery.

Originally Posted by DanScott

Yes, to enhance the PULFRIC EFFECT when using the supplied glasses

Personally, i liked that effect, i have found it not bad at all

The parallax worked in more classic way in the Megadrive beta (unfinished) port, prolly many preferred that one
check for level 5 (shmup) in this longplay, at min. 21.21 :
[ Show youtube player ]
still something moves in the opposite direction

[ShenLong]

Originally Posted by kremiso

Completely agree for the video quality, great find @sokolovic

Perfect mix between development, demonstration and tutorial;
i like expecially the tutorial side, VERY understandable despite the technical argument.
Crossed fingers for this new project

I have a noob question about Street Fighter 2, in the video are explained the different issues between a SuperNintendo and an Amiga1200 port of the arcade;
now i'm wondering how the developers reached in the Megadrive port at time, then ?

The story behind the supremacy of the SNES version involves now (current day) illegal monopolistic contracts Nintendo used back then. SFII (original version) was a SNES exclusive in the USA. It wasn't until SFII:Championship Edition and later that Sega, NEC, FM-Townes, 3DO had a (legal)crack at it. Asian countries had illegal console ports galore.

The SNES version was an inhouse CapCom title that used a CapCom accelerator chip similar to the FX chip nintendo later made for 3D except not as powerful. In many ways the SNES version is better than the arcade version.

The MegaDrive/Genesis version is horrible sound wise. The sound samples have a higher pitch with a low frame rate for the game itself. Capcom did such a good job with their snes port the mega drive/genesis port looked and played like garbage. Capcom didn't use any sort of accelerator chip in the genesis/mega drive versions.

Hands down the Amiga ports were terrible US Gold did a crap job with the Amiga port. The Capcom CPS-1 arcade hardware and the Amiga ECS chipset have alot of similarities. I'm certain with skilled coders a near arcade perfect port could have done for the Amiga ECS platform with a better than arcade version for the AGA platform.

[dlfrsilver]

The SNES version was an inhouse CapCom title that used a CapCom accelerator chip similar to the FX chip nintendo later made for 3D except not as powerful. In many ways the SNES version is better than the arcade version.

I don't know where you pick this, but SF2 doesn't use any accelerator chip.

This is absolute bullshit. All the SNES game carts using special chips are known and SF2 is not one of them.

Next the SNES version is better than the arcade version ?

Stop taking cocaine in ya nose ! The arcade version is the original one, with bigger sprites, better music and sound effects, and a hardware so much more powerful than your regular SNES kiddies games !

The best version of SF2 out of the arcade is the Sharp X68000 version. It's an almost carbon copy of the Capcom CPS1 version.

The MegaDrive/Genesis version is horrible sound wise. The sound samples have a higher pitch with a low frame rate for the game itself.

Bullshit part 2. the Megadrive sound is bad because capcom used a shit sound driver. Search on google for the fixed driver version, it sounds SO much better.

Bullshit part 3. The megadrive version runs at 60fps in japanese version, and 50fps on the euro version.

Capcom did such a good job with their snes port the mega drive/genesis port looked and played like garbage. Capcom didn't use any sort of accelerator chip in the genesis/mega drive versions.

Bullshit part 4. Neither SNES or Genesis/megadrive use accelerator chip on SF2.

Hands down the Amiga ports were terrible US Gold did a crap job with the Amiga port. The Capcom CPS-1 arcade hardware and the Amiga ECS chipset have alot of similarities. I'm certain with skilled coders a near arcade perfect port could have done for the Amiga ECS platform with a better than arcade version for the AGA platform.

The Amiga and the capcom CPS-1 hardware unfortunately have almost nothing in common, aside the 68000 (slower on the amiga 500).

The Amiga ECS is unable to fourk out something that is nearby near the CPS1 version. Even for the AGA machines, it's certainly not an easy feature.

You're a bit deluded aren't you ?

[roondar]

Was that really necessary?

[Photon]

The A1200 was very popular, but game developers née game publishers flocked to consoles instead. The AGA chipset also only adds more colors and less CPU load, nothing else. As a result, there are few AGA exclusive games to begin with, and not all take full advantage, just as for OCS.

Those that do take advantage are mostly just well-planned from hardware knowledge, i.e. not lazy ports. In some cases, they deliberately limit and special-case gameplay to pull off arcade-like performance, e.g. Turrican series. Something like Mega Typhoon (arcade Raiden adaptation) would be what you're asking for. No problem at all making that with twice the colors on AGA, yet there isn't one.

Now, the A1200 also came with a much faster CPU, and you could upgrade it (even with just some fastmem) to make it a lot faster. This trend continued and so - "taking advantage of the hardware" on AGA largely means shifting work from the chipset to the CPU, not discovering secret chipset tricks.

Some games do this, and the ones released 1994-1995 should be peak performance for unexpanded AGA.

OP seems to be asking about discovering some trick in the AGA chipset. Well, it really wouldn't translate to a performance boost, and not a visual boost either since it could already display tons of colors! So, from the view of a gamer, not a substantially more awesome game than you would expect from what the hardware could already do.

It could be explored for the fun of it. and I wouldn't mind seeing 2D games with the new sprites, even if it couldn't reach e.g. Metal Slug 5. Maybe time for an AGA reboot??

[ShenLong]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I don't know where you pick this, but SF2 doesn't use any accelerator chip.

I goit it from a livecast during the SFII 30th anniversary livestream when the developers were talking the big2 console ports. The SNES version used a function specific dsp. I find it odd too because console copiers were able to play it with just a ram upgrade.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

The best version of SF2 out of the arcade is the Sharp X68000 version. It's an almost carbon copy of the Capcom CPS1 version.

Yes, it is the best version overseas, for those of us in the USA the snes version is the best version. In the USA a person can live a lifetime and never see a Sharp X6800 in person once. The worst version I'd say is the PC-Engine version and the MegaDrive/Genesis version. The PC Engine/TG16 wasn't released in the USA and had to be imported. The PC-Engine has superior audio onboard over the Megadrive/Genesis and like magic it has shit sound.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

the Megadrive sound is bad because capcom used a shit sound driver. Search on google for the fixed driver version, it sounds SO much better.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

part 3. The megadrive version runs at 60fps in japanese version, and 50fps on the euro version.

It also has the same shit collision detection and controls with a majority of the background animations not included.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Neither SNES or Genesis/megadrive use accelerator chip on SF2.

I never said the MegaDrive/Genesis version did. I asked a friend that works with me who heard the same SF2 30th anniversary stream as I did if he remembered anything about the devs talking about the snes version. It was a dsp for specific tasks, not a SuperFX accelerator styled chip.


The Amiga and the capcom CPS-1 hardware unfortunately have almost nothing in common, aside the 68000 (slower on the amiga 500).

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

The Amiga ECS is unable to fourk out something that is nearby near the CPS1 version. Even for the AGA machines, it's certainly not an easy feature.

An average game that shows ECS and AGA are capable of large sprite 2D fighters is, 'FightinSpirit'. Its not the Tesla P100D of fighters but does prove ECS&AGA amiga can do NeoGeo styled fighters with large character sprites and animated backgrounds. In the days of Amiga print magazines the Dev's 'Neo' claimed the game was developed for the NeoGeo and SNK shot it down . It was an interview/review in a print magazine.
It was during a time where the NeoGeo was in its Heyday for fighters

[ShenLong]

Originally Posted by Photon

wouldn't mind seeing 2D games with the new sprites, even if it couldn't reach e.g. Metal Slug 5. Maybe time for an AGA reboot??

I have faith in skilled coding and coder but, MetalSlug 5 would be alot to ask for even from an AGA machine. Theres alot of time in that game where a good 60% of the screen is animated with stereo music in the bg and crisp audio.

I'd like to think an 030/25 AGA with 8megs ram would be the minimum system requirements for non stuttering slowing down gameplay. With a ground up AGA game engine being built and not cross porting the NeoGeo game engine. With a ground up engine a really kick ass RTG version could be made too.

Do any games use both AGA and, RTG when both are available? Used in a similar way as SLI/Crossfire is?

[Tigerskunk]

Why would you want to combine AGA and RTG if they output on different screens?

[daxb]

Because you have two screens. RTG to 70" screen and AGA to a smaller screen in front of you for static/info/whatever stuff.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Photon

The A1200 was very popular, but game developers née game publishers flocked to consoles instead.

Not exactly true. Compared to consoles the A1200 wasn't very popular, and it was tainted by the Amiga's reputation for piracy. Games developers could expect to make a lot more money from console games, whether the hardware was more powerful or not.

The AGA chipset also only adds more colors and less CPU load, nothing else.

A bit more than just more colors and less CPU load, but I see your point. The thing is, more colors and higher frame rates don't necessarily translate to a proportionally better game. But a faster CPU and more colorful graphics can make games viable that would be unsatisfactory or impossible on ECS.

There are many older Amiga games that could be re-coded to take advantage of the A1200's extra power. Those games might not look much more colorful, but could have much better gameplay than they did on an overtaxed A500.

Now, the A1200 also came with a much faster CPU, and you could upgrade it (even with just some fastmem) to make it a lot faster. This trend continued and so - "taking advantage of the hardware" on AGA largely means shifting work from the chipset to the CPU, not discovering secret chipset tricks.

This is true, but it doesn't mean there aren't any tricks left in AGA that haven't been fully exploited.

Since the A1200 was designed to be expanded via the trapdoor slot (just like the A500 was) and RAM expansions are now cheap and readily available, I think any new games being developed should consider requiring it (just like later OCS games required 1MB). With FastRAM present the interaction between CPU and AGA changes, so tricks might be discovered that wouldn't work on a stock (ChipRAM only) A1200.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by ShenLong

I goit it from a livecast during the SFII 30th anniversary livestream when the developers were talking the big2 console ports. The SNES version used a function specific dsp. I find it odd too because console copiers were able to play it with just a ram upgrade.

This is total bullshit. SF2 uses the SNES chipset. Honestly, anyone can tell you that this is wrong. I have SF2 on SNES cart, if i unscrew it, there won't be any custom dsp or chip inside, only a ROM chip containing the game.

Yes, it is the best version overseas, for those of us in the USA the snes version is the best version. In the USA a person can live a lifetime and never see a Sharp X6800 in person once. The worst version I'd say is the PC-Engine version and the MegaDrive/Genesis version. The PC Engine/TG16 wasn't released in the USA and had to be imported. The PC-Engine has superior audio onboard over the Megadrive/Genesis and like magic it has shit sound.

Be aware that the CPS1 arcade hardware is much more powerful than your regular SNES kiddy hardware. Keep in mind as well that the nearest hardware to the CPS1 is the Sega Genesis, not the SNES.

It also has the same shit collision detection and controls with a majority of the background animations not included.

The megadrive uses portion of code from the CPS1 arcade source (same 68000 CPU!). The SNES version use a simplified and reduced version of the arcade code logic.

I never said the MegaDrive/Genesis version did. I asked a friend that works with me who heard the same SF2 30th anniversary stream as I did if he remembered anything about the devs talking about the snes version. It was a dsp for specific tasks, not a SuperFX accelerator styled chip.

This is just a fairy tale. The SNES games using custom chips embedded in the carts are well known and documented.

An average game that shows ECS and AGA are capable of large sprite 2D fighters is, 'FightinSpirit'. Its not the Tesla P100D of fighters but does prove ECS&AGA amiga can do NeoGeo styled fighters with large character sprites and animated backgrounds. In the days of Amiga print magazines the Dev's 'Neo' claimed the game was developed for the NeoGeo and SNK shot it down . It was an interview/review in a print magazine.
It was during a time where the NeoGeo was in its Heyday for fighters

Fighting Spirit is a great effort, but at the same time, has drawbacks, due to the use of the half bright 64 colors mode.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

This is total bullshit. SF2 uses the SNES chipset. Honestly, anyone can tell you that this is wrong. I have SF2 on SNES cart, if i unscrew it, there won't be any custom dsp or chip inside, only a ROM chip containing the game.

Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Street fighter Zero 2 released for the SNES did use the S-DD1 chip. So this might be the source for this mix up.