X86 Discussion

[dreadnought]

So I've finally got an extra HDD (IDE). Can try to install DOS/98SE. But, I've completely forgotten how to do that, despite doing it for a living at some point back in the day.

I read a little about DOS and it seems you really need the floppies for an install? I have a floppy drive but not sure I can be bothered buying blank disks. Is there no other (easy) way?

About Win 98, I seem to recall some boot disk was needed? Or can it be done just from
CD ROM?

Finally, I'd like to dual boot XP and 98 (or DOS). The XP is now running from my main SATA drive, it has a few partitions there already. So the plan is to install that new IDE disk (which is 160GB btw, would that be too much for DOS?) and put DOS or 98 on it, then have some boot menu on start. Don't remember how to do that either though

Any advice much appreciated.

[rare_j]

I installed Win98 SE a while back and didn't need any kind of floppy disk as far as I can remember. But the machine I'm using is more modern and can boot from the CD drive.
I believe a floppy disk is required to load up the CDRom drivers and activate the CD drive, and then run setup from the CD, if the computer cannot do this automatically.
Someone can correct me here if this is not accurate.
I'm sure someone could send you a floppy disk if you need one. I have loads lying about I'm never going to use.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

So I've finally got an extra HDD (IDE). Can try to install DOS/98SE. But, I've completely forgotten how to do that, despite doing it for a living at some point back in the day.

I read a little about DOS and it seems you really need the floppies for an install? I have a floppy drive but not sure I can be bothered buying blank disks. Is there no other (easy) way?

About Win 98, I seem to recall some boot disk was needed? Or can it be done just from
CD ROM?

Finally, I'd like to dual boot XP and 98 (or DOS). The XP is now running from my main SATA drive, it has a few partitions there already. So the plan is to install that new IDE disk (which is 160GB btw, would that be too much for DOS?) and put DOS or 98 on it, then have some boot menu on start. Don't remember how to do that either though

Any advice much appreciated.

You don't have to install DOS, just Win98SE. It is build on top of DOS and you can use DOS shortcuts to create different DOS configurations. Whole Win98SE DOS experience is really much better with simple use of DOS shortcuts. Once you turn into DOS with shortcuts, it will keep you in DOS until you type EXIT in DOS, even when you reboot game.

It is a little bit tedious to reboot many times to get proper drives and memory settings, but it is much easier since you can have shortcut with CD driver, sound and NO EMS, then just copy the same shortcut, change EMS and have it ready in no time.

[dreadnought]

I know Win98 is pretty much DOS, I just thought it could be a bit 1337 to run a pure DOS setup. But the truth is I'm a little bit burned out with tweaking my various retro machines...I just want to sit down and play games. So I guess I will start with 98 since it seems a bit easier/hassle free.

Thanks for the offer, rare j, but I'm in Poland so even if I needed some disks eventually it'd be easier/cheaper just to order some from my local ebay. But my PC is actually a newer one (P3 on some Asus mobo with SATA) so maybe its bios supports CD boot. I will look into it later.

I don't suppose there's any website/database with old DOS games required settings?

About dual boot, is the boot menu created during installation automatically or is there something I should do/remember about?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

About dual boot, is the boot menu created during installation automatically or is there something I should do/remember about?

It's been a while so my memory is probably off; you have to edit the "boot.ini" file.

Edit: yeah, here's an example one:

[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP (Safe)" /safeboot:network /sos /bootlog /noguiboot
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Recovery Console" /cmdcons
C:\BOOTSECT.DOS="MS-DOS 7.10" /win95

[rare_j]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Thanks for the offer, rare j, but I'm in Poland so even if I needed some disks eventually it'd be easier/cheaper just to order some from my local ebay. But my PC is actually a newer one (P3 on some Asus mobo with SATA) so maybe its bios supports CD boot. I will look into it later.

Mine is a P3 class celeron (with usb 1 ports) and it boots the CD. Yours should. It will have a key to press at startup to bring up the boot device menu (f12 or f2 or enter generally) or it might just boot the cd by default.

[lesta_smsc]

So here goes:

I currently have DOS and Windows 98SE. The logic is that the DOS sound ONLY works in DOS and not within Windows 98SE. This is due to how the drivers are configured and the AC'97 codec which fortunately for my motherboard supports native DOS mode SB emulation.

You ONLY have you install Windows 98SE since it is coupled with DOS anyhow (as is every other version of Windows before then).

Once you have Windows 98SE installed do the following:

Type cd\ to get to the C:\> prompt.

Type attrib msdos. sys -r -a -s -h and press Enter.

Type edit msdos. sys and press Enter.

Locate the line BOOTGUI=1 and change the line to BOOTGUI=0 and save the file.

Reboot your computer.

Now your computer will automatically boot into DOS. If you want to run Windows just type "win". I prefer this as my primary use is DOS gaming!

Now to get Windows 98SE installed. You need either burning it onto CD or copy files onto USB. My laptop bios did not allow booting off USB so this is where Plop Boot Manager comes in! It's a bootable floppy disk with all the drivers needed to boot off network, cdrom or even USB! Very neat little tool and easy to use.

If you want to go a step further and get multiple installs you are probably better off installing XP AFTER Windows 98SE as I believe it has an option to allow this. Nonetheless the guide on this page should suffice:

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange...8-xp-dual-boot

Also you could just install different OS on separate partitions (made via Fdisk in DOS) then use EasyBCD to generate a custom boot menu!

[dreadnought]

Ok, many thanks folks. I'll try to tackle it over the weekend.

[lesta_smsc]

So now I want a slim PC that will be perfect for MAME cabinet. I'm looking at Dell Optiplex due to their compact size. Anyone have any recommendations?

Ideally with on-board ATI graphics card so I can run it via 15khz VGA to my 28" CRT!

[dreadnought]

I've looked at many old brand compact PCs but never seen one with onboard ATI. There probably are some, I just did not look hard (I don't need small form so badly). Problem is they also usually have SFF PCI which may or might not be limiting/problematic when it comes to crtemudriver.

I've also heard it's now possible to output 240p via (some at least) Nvidia cards without crtemudriver but did not research it further yet.

You can also build your own mini PC, here's that link again http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/02...hat-plays.html

[lesta_smsc]

Yes Nvidia is supported via Soft15khz.

Some Dells will come with ATI addon card...

[lesta_smsc]

Just update:

MAME running very well on 240p! I need to tweak modelines so that I can get Pang to display correctly without overscanning on vertical axis. Interestingly, if I select NTSC TV as monitor type it displays Pang and other MAME correctly but once I choose Generic 15khz it overscans slightly. Choosing PAL TV underscans significantly!

Generic 15khz gives me option of more screen modes and these work very well!

Oh and now I'm able to run WinUAE at native resolution! I find it incredible that my CRT is displaying pixel perfect resolution on 28"! This works best using Generic 15khz as progressive scan but if I stick with NTSC TV mode it works in interlaced despite choosing the 240p resolution (Arcade OSD shows as 240p for the same resolution but WinUAE for some reason runs this in interlaced mode!?).

Any recommendations on arcade sticks? I've seen X Arcade Tankstick but struggling to find one in the UK!

[SquawkBox]

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

Any recommendations on arcade sticks?

This one from Hori seems fine, full Sanwa of course :
https://tinyurl.com/y8g4dcdu

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

You ONLY have you install Windows 98SE since it is coupled with DOS anyhow (as is every other version of Windows before then).

DOS was only included from Windows 95 and onwards.

[lesta_smsc]

Yes but Windows 98SE gives you benefits of updates sometimes needed and use of VDMSound if required for Windows!

You could also also just install XP which works better for VDMSound and use DOSBox but dual boot to DOS if required.

[dreadnought]

Well, if i wanted to use Dosbox I wouldn't bother with getting an old PC

[SquawkBox]

You could practice the art of installing and running legacy software on a current gen PC through PCem, it's almost like the real thing. Also, if that machine you're getting (care to post its specs, or at least the motherboard model ?) is really old (e.p. pre-Pentium), sticking to Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups might be a viable option although to be honest, the interface feels dated and there's no way to tune it. To overcome this issue, explorer replacement programs comes to mind, such as "Norton Commander" or similar (think the DOS equivalent of Directory Opus). Just go easy when you fire up Norton Commander, I remember once I deleted a few files by mistake, the high contrast colors of the somehow crude interface are not easy on the eye at first.

[dreadnought]

I wrote about this machine few pages back...it's 1Ghz P3 with some Asus mobo. Win 98SE will do fine, if I had more time I'd do pure DOS but this requires more fiddling. In fact I was so busy with life and my other micros recently I haven't even had time to unpack the IDE HDD which I bought for this machine...

I'm really not afraid of NC because I've been using Total Commander instead of Windows Explorer since forever

[lesta_smsc]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Well, if i wanted to use Dosbox I wouldn't bother with getting an old PC

True but if your soundcard does not have DOS drivers you're at a loss for sound hence would need VDMsound.

I've got a laptop as my DOS machine. It has DOS Soundblaster compatibility

[dreadnought]

I got this FM 801 recommended earlier. It's supposed to be fine in DOS.

Main reason I do all this is actually because I want to use VGA CRT monitor. I'm not even sure Dosbox outputs proper pixels... I know there were some forks which did that before, but that's another layer of faffing about.

Besides, it's fun to see old Win 98 /XP and DOS UIs again