CannonBall - Enhanced Outrun Engine Released

[buggs]

Originally Posted by arti040

Guys, my game screen looks like this. What do I wrong?
config: A12k, 060, Voodoo 3 (Mediator)

That's caused by a limitation of the Amiga SDL port. The Amiga SDL port is built around the cybergraphics.library, which doesn't map 1:1 to the P96 screen modes. This is especially visible in the 32 Bit RGB modes, where ARGB,BGRA,RGBA etc. pp. can be supported by the graphics card. Problem is: only a subset of these variants is used* in the Amiga SDL port to write the pixels onto the screen.

*also a limitation of the respective cybergraphics call.

Bottom line: Wholesale screen mode support would require a rewrite of parts of the SDL port specifically for Picasso96.

[Jope]

All the elites run/ran CGX anyway. None of this P96 stuff. ;-)

[arti040]

Originally Posted by buggs

That's caused by a limitation of the Amiga SDL port. The Amiga SDL port is built around the cybergraphics.library, which doesn't map 1:1 to the P96 screen modes. This is especially visible in the 32 Bit RGB modes, where ARGB,BGRA,RGBA etc. pp. can be supported by the graphics card. Problem is: only a subset of these variants is used* in the Amiga SDL port to write the pixels onto the screen.

*also a limitation of the respective cybergraphics call.

Bottom line: Wholesale screen mode support would require a rewrite of parts of the SDL port specifically for Picasso96.

So there is no chance to make it work on P96 for now?

[lantus360]

so much misinformation - this should work fine on P96. are you using the latest driver? Please update it

edit: i am working on a port to completely remove SDL from the code

[arti040]

Driver of what? Voodoo? I'm using 4.30.

PS How can I support your work? Paypal or something? ;-)

[lantus360]

P96

do you have a screenmode for 320x240x24 ?

edit: i dont want/need donations. its open source

also i have the almost same configuration as you. A4000 + Voodoo 3 (mediator) + Warp Engine

[arti040]

Yup, I got 320x240 in all possible variants - 8, 16, 24 and 32bit defined. PicassoAPI.library has version number 2.310, so it's Picasso96 2.1e I think... or something near.

PS It can be open-sourced, but beer is always a beer ;-)

[turrican3]

Hi Lantus,
thanks for your great work.
when do you think a new version will be available ???
Could you make an aga version even if it's just playable on winuae for the moment ??? It could be a great test for saga (new aga enhanced vampire cgx) developpers.
For converting the music in mod, adrdesign http://eab.abime.net/member.php?u=48665 did great job for others conversions perhaps you should try to contact him.

[lantus360]

i am working on an AGA port too, my free time is limited these days but its coming

edit: arti this is what i have - which works fine for me


Libs: pci.library 9.7 11632
Libs:Picasso96API.library 2.310 24520
Libs:Picasso96/emulation.library 40.395 39652
Libs:Picasso96/rtg.library 40.4029 219004
Libs:Picasso96/Voodoo.card 4.35 15072

[bimbo]

Have not seen this before and i used to love Outrun on all my old retros. Time to love it again.

[IvanEBC]

Some time has passed - any new news on this mister Lantus?

[saimon69]

About music conversion i can point to the work of TurricanEd, he did a pretty good port of the Outrun songs!

[TjLaZer]

Can't get it to display properly either. I made sure I had 24-bit screen modes in 320x200, 320x240 and 320x256.

[ransom1122]

Hi MVG...

After Pressing F5 to get into options menu, what button allows you to select the settings?

[Nishicorn]

I am sure that a 'pretty good port' of Out Run could be done for the Amiga (even ECS - the Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge games are proof of this).

However, as 'powerful enough to run Out Run in MAME' PCs couldn't be cheaper (really, you can find them for free, if you know where to look), I am not sure there's a need, when we can just enjoy the original anyway.

'New things for old platforms' is always a multi-edged sword. On one hand, in modern times, you can probably very easily play the 'optimal version' of any game, so there's never truly a need to do a 'conversion' of some good game to Amiga.

When I can just flip the Super Famicom on, and start gamepadding around, the need to have the exact game I am playing painstakingly appear on the Amiga eludes me. Why not just play it on the original platform? Not only do you get the optimal version of the experience, you also get the feel of 'back in the day', whether it's 1980s or 1990s (or even 1970s in some cases).

Modern conversions are also not as good as the original, even when they're excellent. The 'converter' almost always has to have 'their fingerprint' in the mess, so they try to 'improve' something (and end up 'worsening' the conversion), or they don't know how to replicate the -exact- gameplay, so even if it looks the same, it won't play as well (tight gameplay requires an enormous amount of both playtesting and tweaking, and back in the day, they had the advantage of professional playtester groups).

There are a few exceptions, as in 'really good conversions', but for every good one, there are at least a few mediocre or awful ones that miss the mark in one way or another.

People often don't like 'modern things made for old platforms' to be criticized, because after all, someone is still making things for a beloved platform, and I can understand this.

However, even the best conversions can only hope to be 'as good as the original', and as playing the original is usually a matter of flicking a couple of switches and grabbing a game controller, maybe it would be better to use all that time and effort to create something new and good, something your own, instead of someone else's.

Maybe people see this type of thing an 'easy rise to fame', by taking a famous, but non-existing game, and then converting it to a beloved platform, without having to create anything of their own (in a sense).

So as much work as this usually entails, it's at least in some ways lazy and riding on the success / genius of others, instead of daring to lovingly make your own, unique inner vision into reality.

There's no risk involved the same way that a mediocre license game didn't have any risk involved back in the day. The game could be bad or so-so, but it would sell because of the..

... NAME ..

And that's what it seems to be all about. It's of course fun to see what an old, beloved platform can do and how far you can push it, but using someone else's creation's name to do it, seems a bit disingenuous, and perhaps 'instant fame' is too much to resist.

If someone were to make a 'generic car game' for PC, no one would be interested.

But if that someone makes that same, exact game, but names it "Spy Hunter Arcade", makes it for the Amiga and adds mouse (or other analog) controls for it, they will instantly get a mass audience.

(DISCLAIMER: I have not researched whether this type of project already exists or not, but I wouldn't be surprised)

So, although "Out Run" could probably be 'relatively faithfully' done for the Amiga, maybe it's best left into the world of Arcades. We already have the 'Lotus' games, Skidmarks, Indy Heat, Micro Machines, All-Terrain Racing, and a host of other car/racing games on the Amiga, and we can play the Arcade version of 'Out Run' any day we want.

Creating something completely new and original for the (especially AGA) Amigas? Now, that sounds immediately more interesting.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Nishicorn

I am sure that a 'pretty good port' of Out Run could be done for the Amiga (even ECS - the Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge games are proof of this).

However, as 'powerful enough to run Out Run in MAME' PCs couldn't be cheaper (really, you can find them for free, if you know where to look), I am not sure there's a need, when we can just enjoy the original anyway.

---><8

Howdy,
I can only speak for myself, but maybe you are missing the point.
First of all, this "rise in fame" theory is a stretch, the retro community has a limited audience. And the Amiga is a niche within that community..

I think, when it comes to arcade ports, you always compare to the original then wonder how close you could have come on your favorite hardware.
Then is some cases you are bitterly disappointing because you just know your favorite console or computer could have done better. So it's not about how to make a fun game, its to prove someone else wrong or to make a point to prove that a certain port was indeed bad or just lazy - that is a driving force and some people will sit down and spend countless hours only to prove a point. You can still make an excellent conversion of a crappy arcade game although that is sort of self-regulatory because people tend to care less about those games. OutRun was a very popular game back in the date, and the disappointment caused by the crappy Amiga port, scarred some people deep ;-)

There a many many project out there where people do these seemingly "pointless" new ports but there is satisfaction in "see, I told you so, it could be done"..
Or sometimes its a game that wasn't ported to your favorite machine and you want to show that it should/could have been.. Like this guy doing the Shinobi port for MegaDrive..
[ Show youtube player ]

[Havie]

I also think that some programmers just like the challenge!

Also, porting a game where the assets are easily available reduces (some) of the work load and allows a programmer to do what he/she likes doing best. As a novice programmer, I learn something new every time I program something new and not being shackled to graphics and game design let's me focus on learning techniques that I previously didn't know how to do or about at all.

In my case, I have revisited my earlier port of Flappy Bird (written how I would have written it using a PC) and completely rewritten it using the strengths of the Amiga so it is no longer a choppy, slightly jerky version of the game but smoothly scrolls at 50fps using hardware scrolling, sprites and has improved colours 32 v 16. In your world, this was a complete waste of my time as you can play hundreds of version on a phone or online but in my world I have gained a better understanding of how an Amiga works.

And frankly, I would like nothing better than to make an improved Outrun port !

[saimon69]

@Nishicorn

With this answer i also relate to your Metro Siege rant, but since we talk on cannonball/outrun here let me ask:

You do completely miss the point, do you?

However, if you are young i do understand that the concept of "different hardware" might be extraneous to you, since in the last 20 years there are only two/three mainstream platforms left and each one can do perfect arcade ports, but Amiga is from an earlier era than this.

There is a branch of retroaficionados that just want to freeze everything and say "ok that was it" and simply put it in the showcase. No new software, nothing.

And then there are those that wonder if the machine did gave all that was possible to or that want to have new thrills in old hardware, a bit like those car modders you might see around.

At some point is the challenge itself, the "because" that bring retroprogrammers to do things that are not supposed to be there, plus often the commercial ports of their time were crap.

When you find the way to push retromachines in way that at the time were not conceived or barley explored you have literal miracles!
Like multicolour AND scrolling on the ZX spectrum
[ Show youtube player ]

or six channels between sampled and synth sounds on a C64
[ Show youtube player ]

or graphics on a ZX81
[ Show youtube player ]

or thousands of colors in a barebones 1980 PC
[ Show youtube player ]

or even demo with lyrics on an unexpanded VIC-20!
[ Show youtube player ]

And you have even coders that based on the game port disassembly fix it to become a more than decent game!
[ Show youtube player ]

Because.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Can't get it to display properly either. I made sure I had 24-bit screen modes in 320x200, 320x240 and 320x256.

I have the last 2 modes you commented in my P96 settings also (I'm 2.4.4..I think it is, not 2.0 but I'll give that a short as well), for 24-bit. Using a PicassoIV. See a scrambled screen but I can tell it's attempting to display. Speedy CyberStormPPC here. If I use CGX 4, it attempts to run in window, and that's...as far as it gets.


I'll check around for some other ROMs.

Using WinUAE (newest) (clone of my A4000) using UAEGfx and JIT it's at the 60 PFS. I'm using a Ryzen 3600, MSI X570 Gaming Plus with Windows 7. Not overclocked.

[tomcat666]

anyone knows how to set the screen mode for cannonball amiga rtg version ? it always opens in a small window on the workbench screen with wrong colours (wb screen is running in 32bit).