"Pure" platformers?

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by frikilokooo

SMBI I have no spotted bad collisions,I have played it a lot and is a perfect masterpiece

[ Show youtube player ]. I definitely see myself landing on the Goomba.

For more details, here are three key frames (I can also upload the uncompressed AVI (38Mb) if you want to have a look by yourself, if you give a place to upload it to).



Hehe, I'm gonna crush you mushroom dude (or whatever you are called).



Yep, I'm definitely touching you so you will die since this is a pure platform game in which you kill enemies by jumping on them.



* Turns power off *


There are other problems but I won't spend any more time 'hunting' them. Maybe the refresh rate has an effect on those (was the game adapted for the PAL/SECAM NES? I have no idea).
Anyway, the same way people can adapt to a bit of lag in online game, their brain anticipating things a bit, I think SMB players adapted to the collision detection of SMB and consider it normal, while for other people like the reviewer I quoted or me, there is clearly a problem.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

Yeah, the power of mass-marketting goes a long way.

Especially the "American" mass marketing machine which had Nintendo and Mario as the staple of the gaming public but the Amiga was nowhere to be seen only mostly in Europe which was an entirely separate market, and we all know how America likes to market to the extremes.

(This next paragraph is not referenced at you Horace )
And honestly, i have no interest in controlling a little fat fuck with a mustache jumping on fucking mushrooms (the only mushrooms i am interested in are magic), as TCD said, give me Turrican 2, a big arse fucking gun that rotates 360 degrees, some killer music from Huelsbeck, expansive worlds and Bren Mc'Guire out for revenge!!! .... Mario might be the be all and end all for some, and no-one here is saying its a bad series of 2D games, but FUCK MARIO, it is in my "preferential" opinion far from the greatest thing out there.

Originally Posted by stefcep

Actually I come FROM Amiga and only in the last 12 months did I play a Mario 2D game. Not a Nintendo fanboy by any means, but I call it as I se it.

And you sound like a Christian who says he used to be an Atheist and now is trying to convert us to Christianity. Mate, we just do not see Jesus in Mario, we don't see the light and we don't wish to see the light because there is no light, there is no divine God just as there is no divine Mario, we have found our own God that is without the fanatical indoctrination of Mario, its in games like Turrican 2 and various other Amiga or non Amiga gaming experiences, so as i said before, there is no "best" platform game out there!, there is only what you "deem" as the best but by many other peoples standards is not.

[frikilokooo]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

[ Show youtube player ]. I definitely see myself landing on the Goomba.

For more details, here are three key frames (I can also upload the uncompressed AVI (38Mb) if you want to have a look by yourself, if you give a place to upload it to).



Hehe, I'm gonna crush you mushroom dude (or whatever you are called).



Yep, I'm definitely touching you so you will die since this is a pure platform game in which you kill enemies by jumping on them.



* Turns power off *


There are other problems but I won't spend any more time 'hunting' them. Maybe the refresh rate has an effect on those (was the game adapted for the PAL/SECAM NES? I have no idea).
Anyway, the same way people can adapt to a bit of lag in online game, their brain anticipating things a bit, I think SMB players adapted to the collision detection of SMB and consider it normal, while for other people like the reviewer I quoted or me, there is clearly a problem.

Are you kidding?call that bad collisions is ridiculous,jumps in the center of the mushroom and you won't dieit is a subjective opinion,I find that example just

[killergorilla]

That is fecking brilliant!

Bwahahahahahahah

[DH]

Originally Posted by stefcep

No "having to use a one buttoned joystick and having to work things out to actually achieve something in the platformer uses" is a source of frustration that makes the game harder to play than it is. I grew up with one button joysticks, and since buying a SNES, have never looked back at playing a platformer the "old way".

What are you talking about. I grew up with the realism of a single buttoned joystick, which I was more than able to use for the 10 or 20 or so moves etc that you *could* do with it. The games were obviously designed in a way *NOT* to make them easy and to incorporate joystick difficulties to add an element of hardness to the games too. Although for some, this was impossible, so I must be one of many elitists who was able to master this We all know who wasn't

On another point, the gamepad with it's 14 or so buttons has obviously won most people over. Although it took me some time to master this device especially when you're used to a single buttoned joystick, it did eventually win me over but I still have a heart and prefer the joystick for playing a platformer or any other game on the Amiga, as it *is* the classic, correct and proper way to do it

[Adropac2]

Thing is i like all these platform games too on Amiga and i had fun playing them

Super Frog was in no way offensive, it just didn't do anything standout like in the same way Simon the Sorcerer isn't as stand out as Monkey Island - Monkey Island being the best example of the genre on Amiga

I wouldn't swap my Amiga days for anything as they were the best times but the real genius of games wasn't in the form of Amiga platformers - Speedball2, Kickoff2, Deutros, Carrier Command, F18, etc etc were what Amiga did so well and consoles owners could only hope to get anything as great these beautifull games

Turrican is a little unique though i will always give it that as it has exploration as well as it's perfect music and atmosphere.The game should be enough to command respect from any console owner frankly

[Adropac2]

Iv'e got to say though that the word subjective is quite the convenient one for arguments like this.I mean someones high opinion of some dreadfull game doesn't make that game all of a sudden great, only to him it does.Games have mechanics and are an artform just like any form of creation.You start saying a kids drawing is for whatever reason better than a great known piece of art and it's then you can throw subjective in there - it very well maybe better than anything to that person of course but that doesn't make it so.The sequel to Starship Troopers better than the original, well yes i guess it is then.

There is a basis for saying what is said to be good or bad, even though it doesn't make it correct in the eyes of those that like it for whatever other reason

Fair enough as we all have opinions like that but things like this are either better or not on the grounds of things.I like Supremacy over most Amiga sims on the basis that it just feel the nicest and most accesible to me, but i highly doubt it's the best of it's type on Amiga.Being that Supremacy is the best to me doesn't make it so

[DH]

@stefcep
If you are so against the Amiga platform games etc... why are you here? All you have done is knock the Amiga in one way or another, why? For it's time, it was the most successful computer on the market and stood for a decade as the top machine to have, believe me I know, I had more than one. You obviously didn't *live* the dream in those days or your opinion would be so much different.

Stop whining about the Amiga and all the awesomeness of it's pure gameability, it has beaten you hands down no matter what you pick and try to throw at us. Don't forget, the Amiga was more than a games machine/console, and could outwit and beat any console of the same period.

btw. How old are you? This could explain a lot

Between the two choices below, I know which one I would choose




How many buttons did you say the snes had, the Amiga had 94 keyboard buttons, two on the mouse and one on the joystick, I think it even beats the snes

Anyway my choice is *Turrican* all versions on the Amiga the best that there was and beats everything going, even today, an absolute pure awesome game that'll live with me until my dying day

[Dastardly]

I also played my first Mario game very late. I got a SNES and a copy of SMW in about 96. I had "lived" the Amiga and it will ALWAYS be my number 1 machine for so many reasons.

BUT, 2D Mario games are the best examples of pure platformers I have ever played. This isn't Nintendo bias. I don't even particularly like Nintendo generally. I also am just calling it as I see it. That doesn't mean I am slagging off Amiga platformers by any means, it just means I see a perfect example of a genre on another machine. If I was a shmup freak then no doubt the best examples of that genre would probably be on a different machine again.

Mass marketing hasn't shaped my view.

[Hungry Horace]

even forgetting the Amiga for a minute, I would still rather play Rainbow Islands, NZS or Bubble Bobble on another machine (most likely Arcade version, but i prefer it when assigning 'up' to jump, as I often do using MAME ) than any Mario game.

I've tried the Mario series enough, and never liked much about it. Its 'physics' probably being the aspect i dislike the most. (i did enjoy Blade002's rant however ) - However, I will never tell anyone that they 'shouldnt' like it or that they should be forgotten because 'X game is superior or more popular than Y', but i'll happily put across an opposing opinion, because... well... i'm entitled to!


And hey, I'm someone who even like to see extra pad-options added to their Amiga games so i dont have to use the keyboard. However, i respect that as a personal choice of mine, rather than trying to declare that one way or the other is 'better' or how things 'should be done'.


And i'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Manic Miner isnt the most pure of all platform games.

[DH]

I'm going to put a spanner in the works.

Platform games originated in the early 1980s within arcade machines. These were probably the best, not for there gameability, but for the pure female companionship that came along with them. Who really wants to sit alone on any machine at home playing there favourite platform game, when you could be down the local arcade impressing all those girls with your awesomeness and pure playability moves, with the odd wink to the lucious bird that you wouldn't mind................. Aaaaaaargh! Those were the days

I don't knock any games, some are good and some are bad but I prefer to keep those opinions to myself unless it really needs saying. Personal preference is the game, if you enjoy it and have years of fun, then that's cool, tell the world no matter which platform it belongs too, but don't use the games as an excuse to knock one of the worlds most comprehensive games machines that was ever to be created. It's like saying I prefer the Wii 'cause I can dance around the sitting room blasting the f@#k out of everything and everyone in a better kind of way, whilst I destroy the sitting room doing it. You can do that on a single buttoned joystick on an Amiga too but in a different fashion and for a different reason

@Hungry Horace
Manic Miner isn't the most pure of all platform games There I've said it, now what

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by Dastardly

I also played my first Mario game very late. I got a SNES and a copy of SMW in about 96. I had "lived" the Amiga and it will ALWAYS be my number 1 machine for so many reasons.

BUT, 2D Mario games are the best examples of pure platformers I have ever played. This isn't Nintendo bias. I don't even particularly like Nintendo generally. I also am just calling it as I see it. That doesn't mean I am slagging off Amiga platformers by any means, it just means I see a perfect example of a genre on another machine. If I was a shmup freak then no doubt the best examples of that genre would probably be on a different machine again.

Mass marketing hasn't shaped my view.

I agree with everything you've said I also got SMW late and have exactly the same feeling about the Mario games, in comparison to any platformers, not just Amiga platformers.

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by blade002

And honestly, i have no interest in controlling a little fat fuck with a mustache jumping on fucking mushrooms (the only mushrooms i am interested in are magic), as TCD said, give me Turrican 2, a big arse fucking gun that rotates 360 degrees, some killer music from Huelsbeck, expansive worlds and Bren Mc'Guire out for revenge!!! .... Mario might be the be all and end all for some, and no-one here is saying its a bad series of 2D games, but FUCK MARIO, it is in my "preferential" opinion far from the greatest thing out there.

This is an interesting point. Personally I don't give a crap about Mario the character or any other character associated with the games. You could swap out all the graphics for something completely different and I would still enjoy the game just as much. It's the mechanics of the game that impresses me so much. Freakyweakywoo always takes the piss out of me for playing "girly games" like Rainbow Islands, but when I play it, all that brightly coloured shit is completely irrelevant. I am playing a great example of the genre and if it has mushrooms or rainbows in it, then who gives a shit? When I play Turrican I don't pretend I'm Brent McGuire ffs. Same goes for Mario.

[Retro1234]

I also like Mario theres so much cool stuff happeing in a game -levels -bonus levels even Super Mario Land GB, It realy started getting good with Mario 3 NES.
I wish there was a decent NES emulator for Amiga.

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by DemonHellraiser

@Hungry Horace
Manic Miner isn't the most pure of all platform games There I've said it, now what

i said i wanted a reason for it

moving left, right, jumping, platforms, enemies. I dont see how you can get any more 'pure' (FYI, i am jokeing as i think the whole idea of a platform game being "pure" is ridiculous anyway)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

(FYI, i am jokeing as i think the whole idea of a platform game being "pure" is ridiculous anyway)

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

However, it is not a pure genre and is very frequently coupled with elements of other genres, such as the shooter elements in Contra, the adventure elements of Flashback or the RPG elements of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. As long as the platform mechanic remains a prominent part of the gameplay, it may still correctly be termed a platformer. Because of this, there are many diverse sub-genres of platformers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_game

[pce_gamer]

lilalurl: Oh my god. You REALLY expect to land on that enemy at that angle!? You're been playing too much shitty/floaty/crappy generic platform games. Ahh, but ignorance is bliss I guess.

I can't believe the bias-ism in this thread. I do understand the novelty of using a single button stick with up for jump (I grew up some home console computer before a NES), but not realize how really limiting of an experience that is in the face of a real multiple button gamepad setup ( and with not using up for jump)... is just ignorant. Or very fanboyish. Man.

And for the record, Mega Turrican for the Megadrive is the best version

The Mario games were brilliant. From SMB1 and up, the gameplay controls and mechanics were perfect. Pure perfection. If it's one thing that the Japanese knew how to do better than ANY one else (US/EU/Other), it was gameplay mechanics. Too bad the Amiga wasn't popular in Japan

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by pce_gamer

I can't believe the bias-ism in this thread. I do understand the novelty of using a single button stick with up for jump (I grew up some home console computer before a NES), but not realize how really limiting of an experience that is in the face of a real multiple button gamepad setup ( and with not using up for jump)... is just ignorant. Or very fanboyish. Man.

Or personal preference. Who can tell?

[T_hairy_bootson]

lilalurl: I would call that good collision detection, you ran into the side of him.

And YES YOU DESERVED TO DIE.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by pce_gamer

I can't believe the bias-ism in this thread.

Indeed...
Some like Mario, some don't. Some like 'up 2 jump'™, some don't. Do you want to tell people what they should prefer? What do you really expect on an Amiga board. That everybody cheers in when you say 'Mario is the greatest platform series of all times'?
Recommend your favourites, try the ones of others, give an opinion about them, but cut that 'opinion = fact' stuff.