Amiga 3000 Zorro Bus Problems

[Ze_ro]

I recently purchased a BigRamPlus to put in my Amiga 3000, and to go along with it, I also picked up a newer Buster chip (-11), since I knew mine was an older revision (-07).

So, I went through the annoying task of taking apart my 3000, swapped the chips, and plugged in the BigRamPlus to test it out before reassembling everything... Hooray! Works great! All the RAM shows up, and Monkey Island 2 plays fine, so everything seems to be working. So, I start reassembling everything, and I install my X-Surf network card and DataFlyer RAM expansion (yeah I know, an old 8MB card is pretty pointless when I have 256MB, but I was curious to run some speed tests on them to compare)... I reboot, and suddenly I only have 3.5MB of Fast RAM (that's what's installed on the motherboard)... showconfig doesn't see any of my add-on boards.... neither does the boot menu diagnostics.

I found out that if I switch the BigRamPlus to be in a lower slot (closer to the motherboard), it gets detected and works fine, but the X-Surf and DataFlyer never get detected, even if they're the only board installed. Maybe the other cards are broken and they're not passing the autoconfig signal?

I disassembled again (ugh...) and put the older Buster chip back in to see if that might have been the problem... and there we go, the X-Surf and DataFlyer show up fine... except the machine hangs on bootup when the BigRamPlus is installed. From what I had read, the BigRamPlus didn't require Buster -11, so I'm not sure why that didn't work. Switching back to the -11 Buster, and it's back to only the BigRamPlus working.

So what's going on here? Can Zorro II and Zorro III devices not coexist on the same bus? Do I have a bad Buster chip or a dirty socket? Is there some other chip that needs to be upgraded alongside Buster? I have an older Ramsay and DMAC, but I didn't think they had anything to do with Zorro.

My Amiga 3000 is an older 16MHz model, motherboard revision 6.1. I still use the 1.4 ROMs which load 3.1 off the hard drive (if it's loading the kickstart into the BigRamPlus instead of the Fast RAM on my motherboard, this might be what causes it to hang with Buster 07?)

--Zero

[lost_loven]

Maybe try booting off a 2.xx rom and see if cards are recognized. This is a interesting problem. Could be problem with the daughter card? maybe a upgrade is required there? dunno, but be nice to figure out.. what part of town you in?

is there a way to get it to load kick start into motherboard ram?
I know skick if use that you can select where you want kickstart to load.

lost

[Cymru]

Clean all the slots with Isopropyl alcohol and a tooth brush or such. Then clean all the board edge connectors with a rubber eraser and wipe off the residue with the alcohol and a cloth. I had an A3000 with Buster-11, BigRam+, x-Surf, and RTG card that worked fine together.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

From what I had read, the BigRamPlus didn't require Buster -11

No, BigRAMplus says it requires buster rev -11.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...oducts_id=1129

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

Can Zorro II and Zorro III devices not coexist on the same bus?

Yes.

http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD.../node00D4.html

• The Dataflyer lives in the Zorro II memory expansion address space.
• BigRAMplus lives in the Zorro III memory space.
• The A3000 motherboard fast RAM in a different address space.

All three should be able to coexist.

However, slot order is important on Amiga's. I'll look and see if I can find out why. When installing new Zorro hardware I regularly had to swap slots on an A4000 to get all cards to work nicely.

[SpeedGeek]

Your BigRAMplus is a Zorro3 slave card and doesn't use DMA. It should work with any Rev. Super Buster in an A3000. But you forgot that Rev. 11 Super Buster does not work with a 16 MHz A3000!

The good news is that other 16 MHz A3000 owners have had good luck with overclocking to 25 MHz!

The second thing is to check is the +5 Volt supply and see how much it drops when you install the Zorro expansion cards. It's best to check it with a DMM on the motherboard.

The third thing is your Zorro Riser card may have the Dual Term R-packs installed with reverse polarity. You should have a voltage of 2.9-3 Volts on the center pins with no Zorro cards installed. Good luck!

[Ze_ro]

Well, I took apart everything and scrubbed it down good with a toothbrush and some isopropyl alcohol, but that didn't change anything.

Unfortunately, the only actual ROM's I have available to me are the original 1.4 ROMs (AmigaKit doesn't have any 3000 ROM's listed in their store. I tried contacting them about it, but got no reply)... I tried loading 2.04 off a SuperKickstart disk, but it couldn't see the X-Surf or DataFlyer with Buster-11 either. In a 3000, I'm not too sure which Kickstart is doing the zorro setup... though I would think the reboot after loading the new image would force it to redo it all anyways?

I don't see how any of this could be due to the riser card or any power supply issues, as all the cards can be made to work fine as long as I use the right Buster with them.

Buster-11 certainly SEEMS to work in my 16MHz 3000... at least, it manages just fine with the BigRamPlus. I tossed about 200MB worth of random files into a RAM drive, and that worked just fine. It's only when I try to use the X-Surf or DataFlyer that it seems not to work. Unless they're taking too long to configure, and the system gives up on them... since the BigRamPlus is a modern and fairly simple card, it can do it in time, while the older cards can't? But the X-Surf is fairly modern too, so I don't know.

--Zero

[Cymru]

Vesalia has them as I bought a pair a few months ago (real, not AmigaKit EPROM copies).

[SpeedGeek]

I have no problems with Zorro2 cards in my A3000 with Super Buster Rev. 11... maybe it's because my motherboard is running from a 25 MHz clock.

[Cymru]

The Buster 11 clarifies Z3 boards with DMA issues (SCSI and such), but the BigRam+ doesn't use DMA and should be fine.

[Ze_ro]

Bah, so it looks like there ARE known issues regarding A3000/16, Buster-11 and Zorro II cards... I guess I'll have to try overclocking and see if that solves it. Vesalia also has Buster-09's in stock, so maybe I'll pick up one of those for testing purposes.

While looking for information on A3000 overclocking, information is a bit vague, but it seems like all I need to do is replace the U104 oscillator with a 50MHz part, switch some jumpers (J151, J152, J851 and possibly J100), and probably put a heat sink on the CPU. Anyone have any other advice, or is it really that simple?

--Zero

[lost_loven]

Would it be easier to get a 030/040 cpu card instead?

lost

[NMI]

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

While looking for information on A3000 overclocking, information is a bit vague, but it seems like all I need to do is replace the U104 oscillator with a 50MHz part, switch some jumpers (J151, J152, J851 and possibly J100), and probably put a heat sink on the CPU. Anyone have any other advice, or is it really that simple?

Yes, it's really that simple, that's how I been running my A3000 for many, many years.
Of cause no guarantee that your 16MHz 68030 will work reliably at 25MHz, but most likely it will.

[Ze_ro]

Well, I successfully overclocked the system to 25MHz, and it now works perfectly fine with Buster-11 and Zorro II cards! I'm still waiting on some stuff I ordered from Vesalia which will allow me to test out a few more configurations to see what does and doesn't work in this situation, but I can confirm that overclocking is a great way to solve the Buster-11 problem, and gain a bit of extra speed in the process.

--Zero

[Ze_ro]

So I finally got my order from Vesalia, and for the record, Buster-09 has the exact same problem with A3000/16MHz as Buster-11 has.... Recognizes Zorro III devices, but not Zorro II. So if you have a 16MHz model, you really should overclock it.

A3000/16MHz + Buster-09 + BigRAMPlus DID work however, so BigRAMPlus does not require Buster-11.

Hope this info helps someone else in the future.

--Zero

[Kernel]

Old thread I know, but hopefully my question can garner an easy follow-up...

Short of the overlocking that can be done to a 16MHz A3000 to make it work with a Buster 11, will it work if using an 040/060 card like lost_loven recommended without updating the motherboard and changing jumpers?

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by Kernel

Old thread I know, but hopefully my question can garner an easy follow-up...

Short of the overlocking that can be done to a 16MHz A3000 to make it work with a Buster 11, will it work if using an 040/060 card like lost_loven recommended without updating the motherboard and changing jumpers?

An accelerator that runs asynchronous to the motherboard (i.e. the mobo still runs at 16MHz) will not 'fix' the buster issue, unless you change the mobo clock to 25MHz. Installing an accelerator like the A3640 and setting mobo jumpers correctly will cause the mobo to run at 25MHz without modifications, and the reason for that is that the A3640 actually clocks the whole machine from its onboard oscillator (again, provided the jumpers are set correctly).

[gdonner]

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

An accelerator that runs asynchronous to the motherboard (i.e. the mobo still runs at 16MHz) will not 'fix' the buster issue, unless you change the mobo clock to 25MHz. Installing an accelerator like the A3640 and setting mobo jumpers correctly will cause the mobo to run at 25MHz without modifications, and the reason for that is that the A3640 actually clocks the whole machine from its onboard oscillator (again, provided the jumpers are set correctly).

I can confirm this--I have an A3000/16 (replaced the original 1.4 ROMs with 3.1.4), along with a recapped A3640 (and upgraded to v3.2) and it works fine with a BigRamPlus, Buster 11, X-Surf-100 and ZZ9000.

[alexh]

How is that possible? I was always led to believe KS1.4 doesn't work with 040? it needs an 030 MMU

[gdonner]

Originally Posted by alexh

How is that possible? I was always led to believe KS1.4 doesn't work with 040? it needs an 030 MMU

You're right; 1.4 won't boot with an '040/A3640. In my case, I removed the 1.4 ROM chips and installed 3.1.4 when I added the A3640.