23 August 2001, 21:57 | #1 |
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Apple ][ and ][ GS
For you usenet freaks, alt.binaries.emulators.misc is hosting a flood of Apple II (TOSEC) images which is quite massive. The most unique part of the flood is the collection of 255 games (or disks, rather) for the II GS, which was their American equivalent to the Amiga 500 and Atari ST. I really haven't messed much with emulation of this machine, but you'll find a lot of the same games as the Amiga and ST from the same era, so that's always fun. And it really wasn't a terrible box. I may have to dig up the latest emulator and see what the haps is. It would be interesting to see how much of that machine's sound is emulated, as it was pretty advanced for its time, as I recall.
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23 August 2001, 22:11 | #2 |
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The IIGS is an EXCELLENT machine. My cousin had one of the Woz edition, and it was brilliant. It pooped all over PCs... I loved that machine.
Try Out of This world. If the emulator has extra soundcard emulation, it will be brilliant. Most atmospheric version I played thanks to its sound. I do remember my cousin's machine had great sound only because it had that extra card. By teh way, the IIGS is an 8bit machine. neat eh? |
23 August 2001, 22:38 | #3 |
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8-bit? I don't think so. I am almost certain it was 16-bit.
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23 August 2001, 22:43 | #4 |
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OK, here's what I dug up on this machine:
CPU: Western Design Center 65SC816 Speed: 2.8 Mhz FPU: none Motherboard RAM: 256 k Maximum RAM: 8 MB Number of sockets: n/a ROM: 128 k - 1 MB Data path: 16 bit Bus speed: 2.8 Mhz Slots: 7 proprietary (compatible w/Apple II) SCSI: available via expansion card Serial Ports: 2 ADB: 1 Floppy: 5.25" Disk ][ or 3.5" Sony 800k, via floppy port HD: supported Display: 2 bit color at 640x200, 8 bit color at 320x200 IIe enhanced: 80 column Sound Output: built in speaker Power: Introduced: January 1986 Terminated: mid-1993 Announced in September 1986 Removed picture Last edited by Ian; 14 October 2001 at 23:15. |
23 August 2001, 22:47 | #5 |
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OK, you will have to excuse (or ignore) the long text description below (from Byte Magazine), which explains how Akira is not completely wrong, as the IIGS retained compatibility with the previous 8-bit Apple II systems:
Here are the most important features of the Apple lI GS: Apple II compatibility: The Apple II GS will run most Apple II software and expansion cards. It can run at normal Apple II speed or at a higher rate that makes most software run two to three times faster. [ Edit or's note: In this article, "Apple II" refers to the traditional Apple II computer as defined by the Apple II, II+, lIe, and IIc. ] The Apple II GS composite video signal has been corrected so that it will be recorded correctly by a videotape recorder. Apple lie owners can upgrade to complete II GS compatibility by replacing the motherboard and back/bottom plate with a II GS retrofit kit. A 16-bit, 6502-compatible processor: With a 16-bit address bus and 8 "bank address" lines, the Western Design Center's W65C816 can address 256 banks of 64K bytes each, for a total of 16 megabytes. It can also go into a 6502 mode, where it emulates the 65C02A used in the Apple lIe and IIc. The processor's accumulator, stack pointer, and all its registers are 16 bits wide, and its instruction set includes 11 new addressing modes. Greatly expanded memory capacity: The machine's architecture reserves space for 8 megabytes of user RAM and 1 megabyte of system ROM. It comes with 256K bytes of RAM, 128K bytes of system ROM, and 64K bytes of dedicated sound-wave-form memory, but you will have to wait for new programs to use most of the memory above the first 128K bytes. Apple currently has plans for 1- and 4-megabyte expansion cards, although an 8-megabyte card is possible. New graphics capabilities: The Apple II GS adds two "super hi-res" graphics modes: 200 by 320 pixels with a 16-color palette and 200 by 640 pixels with a 4-color palette: the colors come from a color set of 4096. The machine can use up to 16 palettes per screen and change palettes and resolution on a line-by-line basis. Programmers can use two experimental modes: a 640- by 200-pixel, 16-color (with restrictions) palette mode, and a high-speed "fill mode" variation of the 200 by 320, 16-color mode. New sound capabilities: The 32-voice Ensoniq Digital Oscillator Chip (DOC), used in the Ensoniq Mirage sampled-sound music synthesizer, and system firmware can drive the chip to prod uce up to 15 musical "instruments." Mouse, keyboard, and disks: A one-button mouse and a detachable keyboard with keypad are standard equipment. The Apple II GS does not have an internal disk drive, but you can daisy-chain up to two 800K-byte 3-1/2-inch drives and two 140K-byte 5-1/4-inch drives to the disk drive port on the rear panel. The system software will come on 3-1/2-inch disks, which silently but forcefully indicates Apple's intent to phase out the 5-1/4-inch floppy disk. The Toolbox: Application programs can use built-in code (some in ROM, some in RAM) to provide a mouse-driven desktop environment and orderly use of system resources. The Finder: Finder software, supplied with the basic system, allows users to interact with disks and files using windows, icons, and a mousedriven cursor (as popularized by the Apple Macintosh). Desk accessories: The Apple II GS makes available Macintosh-like desk accessories; some a re available from all programs, and others work only with programs specifically designed for the Apple II GS. The Control Panel, accessible from any program, allows the user to change the date, slot assignments, operating speed, and similar parameters. New languages and tools: For the software developer, Apple will offer a 6502/65C02/65816 assembler and versions of C and Pascal; the three languages share a standard editor and linker and allow object code modules from any source to be used together. For the hobbyist, Apple has extended the Apple IIe monitor to work in the Apple II GS 16-bit environment and has added new functions to it. No enhanced, built-in language: Like the Macintosh (and unlike most other computers), the Apple II GS contains no built-in language (such as Microsoft BASIC) that interacts with the machine's new features. Applesoft BASIC is available in system ROM, but it has no way of directly interacting with the new Apple II GS features. A new 16-bit operating system: ProDOS 16 extends Apple's ProDOS (which runs on the Apple II+, IIe, and IIc) to be the standard Apple II GS operating system; it runs on the 65816 in native 16-bit mode, is functionally similar to the 8-bit ProDOS, and shares an identical file structure with ProDOS. Apple has also made slight modifications to the 6502-based ProDOS so that it will run on the Apple II GS's Apple II emulation mode; this operating system is named ProDOS 8. |
23 August 2001, 23:09 | #6 |
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I've used these machines, and I wasn't a big fan. It was most likely because I was biased. When these came out, I was still using the C64/128
btw - There's an A500 in the background of that pic |
24 August 2001, 17:14 | #7 | |
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Well I've always been thinking the Apple II era had ended somewhere in 1983/84. I remember that the first IIe model was introduced by Steve Jobs (and his friend, forgot who) to a wider audience in 1982. The II GS must definitely have been a machine remarkably less popular as II and IIe, methinks. In all honesty, I haven't heard about its existence until today. |
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24 August 2001, 17:46 | #8 |
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The IIGS people were in pretty low numbers. On my BBS, I think there were only 2 users of that machine, and we really gave them a hard time for that! Mind you, Atari ST-bashing was far more fun, even if the IIGS people were very bit as adament that their machine was better than the Amiga.
And yeah, the previous Apple II models were far more popular. No idea why the machine was so unsuccessful...probably because they ignored the rest of the world? Regardless, they had as much shelf space here at the local Software Etc. as did the Amiga. Note, the ST had no shelf space. |
24 August 2001, 18:09 | #9 |
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Oh, it uses THAT processor. I thought it sticked completely with a stock 6502, accelerated like hell. I remember playing both IIGS and II games... when you booted up if you pressed a key you entered Apple II basic, or if the disk in the drive was for the Apple II, it automatically booted on II mode... A very versatile cpu if you ask me, its not-economic version is used at the SuperCPU C64 accelerator, but it runs at 20Mhz
The Apple IIGS games were terrific, as I said, Out of This World was INCREDIBLE with the Ensoniq soundcard. It is the most atmospheric version I played. I ws terribly disapointed when I played the Amiga version and it had no ingame, cinematic music. I wonder for how long software was produced after its death. We bought OOTW in early 1993. I dunno why this machine wasn't popular, the Apple II was mainly popular because it was used a LOT at schools. My stupid cousin gave away this machine to some twat. I wanted it! |
04 October 2004, 23:53 | #10 |
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man...I would love a appleII GS for the sound applications alone (transwave synth anyone!)...but i think the are quite rare in the uk
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05 October 2004, 00:03 | #11 |
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I love the IIGS mainly for the ports of Sierra's AGI games. The IIGS versions were the only ones that did actually have sound fx (woooooooooooow!!) and the music used a few instruments too. I always wondered why they didn't use it for the Amiga versions (since the amiga was indeed capable of it). But I think the IIGS versions were made after the Amiga versions, and thus uses a better version of AGI.
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05 October 2004, 01:23 | #12 |
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My first home computer was an Apple II+, and I was a real Apple fan for years. The Apple II had some areas where it was better than the C64, and some where it wasn't as good. When the IIGS came out, I really wanted one, but before I could ever convince myself to spend that much money, I popped into a store selling A500's just after they came out, and knew as soon as I had checked them out that the Amiga was the better machine, so I bought one that day. I picked up a IIGS from eBay about a year ago and it's a nice little machine, but its no Amiga. One somewhat interesting thing about it that I think I'd heard before but had forgotten had to do with its construction though. The entire machine can be completely disassembled and reassembled with no tools whatsoever, which made the assembly process very simple. There are no screws anywhere, and everything is done with interlocking tabs and such. I replaced the ROM01 motherboard in mine with a ROM03 motherboard to bring it up to the latest version, and that required taking the whole thing apart and putting it together again, but it was a piece of cake to do.
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05 October 2004, 02:19 | #13 | |
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Well, I clearly remember AGI games that HAD sound FX on the Amiga as well: think of the Police Quest series. |
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05 October 2004, 03:02 | #14 | |
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05 October 2004, 06:01 | #15 |
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I wonder WHAT is this doing in prb.WinUAE...
Thread moved to Retrogaming General Discussion! |
05 October 2004, 07:00 | #16 |
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I don't know why it was there, but I'm guessing that it must have been there for the past 3 years or so, based on the date of the first post. I didn't realize the thread wasn't a recent one till now.
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05 October 2004, 17:37 | #17 | |
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05 October 2004, 20:58 | #18 |
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You guys must also rememebr that the Apple ][ GS was the machine used to create the great Icom games, Shadowgate, Deja Vu and Uninvited!
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05 October 2004, 22:17 | #19 | |
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I am still pretty sure though that the IIGS versions of Sierra's AGI games were the only ones that used sampled sound fx, and a few instruments for the music. Download an IIGS emu and a few Sierra games and check it out. they are completely different audio-wise to other platforms. I love them. |
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