Questions about NTSC Amiga 1200

paulo_becas · 03 May 2011, 12:57

I just f*** things up while messing with my PAL 1200 and damaged the Motherboard.
I ordered one NTSC board from Vesalia and a lot of questions were raised.
1. Can i convert a NTSC Board to PAL?
2. If not, Does it work well with a 1084S Monitor?
3. Am i going to experience problems with WHDLoad games?
4. Does Indivision Flicker Fixer solve the problem?
5. Talking about Indivision Flicker Fixer, does anyone knows when they are going to be sold again? Amigakit says that they probably arrive this year.

Please help me out.

kipper2k · 03 May 2011, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulo_becas

I just f*** things up while messing with my PAL 1200 and damaged the Motherboard.
I ordered one NTSC board from Vesalia and a lot of questions were raised.
1. Can i convert a NTSC Board to PAL?
2. If not, Does it work well with a 1084S Monitor?
3. Am i going to experience problems with WHDLoad games?
4. Does Indivision Flicker Fixer solve the problem?
5. Talking about Indivision Flicker Fixer, does anyone knows when they are going to be sold again? Amigakit says that they probably arrive this year.

Please help me out.

1. Yes (you have to add/change components for true pal
2. Yes
3. Games may not work, run too fast, and may shrink/expand on the screen
4 Yes/No
5. no idea

btw... What did you do to your Pal motherboard, it may be fixable ?

paulo_becas · 03 May 2011, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k

1. Yes (you have to add/change components for true pal
2. Yes
3. Games may not work, run too fast, and may shrink/expand on the screen
4 Yes/No
5. no idea

btw... What did you do to your Pal motherboard, it may be fixable ?

Is there some sort of schematic explaning how to convert it to PAL?
Actually the motherboard still works but every time i add the expansion board it freezes, it burn a few paths from the expansion plug and i had to make some bypasses but it looks like something went wrong. It still works well without the expansion board.
I tried three diferent expansions and it freezes with all of them, i also tested the expansions on my brother's 1200 and they all work fine, so i'm guessing the board went berzerk.

kipper2k · 03 May 2011, 15:24

here is a post explaining how to convert from Pal to NTSC. You need to do the opposite to convert from NTSC to Pal

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57868

You can use the parts from your broken Pal motherboard to do the conversion. This is not an easy job, you will need good soldering skills

paulo_becas · 03 May 2011, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k

here is a post explaining how to convert from Pal to NTSC. You need to do the opposite to convert from NTSC to Pal

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57868

You can use the parts from your broken Pal motherboard to do the conversion. This is not an easy job, you will need good soldering skills

Thank's for the help, i still don't know what board revision am i gonna get, mine was 1D4 the one in the post is 2B let's see if theres any diference

rkauer · 04 May 2011, 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulo_becas

I just f*** things up while messing with my PAL 1200 and damaged the Motherboard.

I hate when this happens.

Quote:

I ordered one NTSC board from Vesalia and a lot of questions were raised.
1. Can i convert a NTSC Board to PAL?

Yes.

See post above. Will be pretty convoluted, but doable.

Quote:

2. If not, Does it work well with a 1084S Monitor?

Yes. Even better with a true multisync Amiga monitor (better resolutions available).

Quote:

3. Am i going to experience problems with WHDLoad games?

BIG NO. WHDLoad have a tooltype "PAL" to force games to run in PAL mode.

Quote:

4. Does Indivision Flicker Fixer solve the problem?

Yes. Monitors are NTSC/PAL "agnostic".

Quote:

5. Talking about Indivision Flicker Fixer, does anyone knows when they are going to be sold again? Amigakit says that they probably arrive this year.

This year or "more two weeks (tm)"

kipper2k · 04 May 2011, 13:01

Rkaeur,

Can't agree with you in Pal mode on the WHDload issue. Pal mode will not always work correctly on games. try playing Superfrog for example on an NTSC A1200 with the Pal switch and you will see the speed is all wrong. Some games will just not work correctly

Hewitson · 04 May 2011, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Yes. Monitors are NTSC/PAL "agnostic".

Yes, but if running software in PAL mode the conversion to 60hz done by the Indivision will cause scrolling to be jerky.

paulo_becas · 05 May 2011, 09:35

So i will experience problems no matter what?
I see that the only thing i can do to eliminate all those issues is converting the board back to PAL.
Well as soon as i get it i'll give it a try and post every move a make using pictures since theres not much info on this.
Let's see what happens.

05 May 2011, 15:00

I've never had issues with WHDLoad and PAL games on my NTSC A1200, however...

If there are issues with using the PAL tooltype in WHDLoad, then another thing to try is to boot your NTSC A1200 into PAL mode through the early boot menu.

If this doesn't help either, then a hard boot to PAL is also possible by cutting off a pin from the Alice chip (can't recall which one atm). This also allows for a possibility of installing a PAL/NTSC switch.

Unless the hardware conversion from NTSC to PAL is performed, you will never get a true PAL display though, but rather what is called NTSC50 (i.e. PAL60 when booting into NTSC display on a PAL Amiga).

Lots of things to try though and good luck on your chosen path.

Claw22000 · 05 May 2011, 15:38

Amigakit has pal a1200 systems for sale why did u check there?

paulo_becas · 05 May 2011, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by x56h34

I've never had issues with WHDLoad and PAL games on my NTSC A1200, however...

If there are issues with using the PAL tooltype in WHDLoad, then another thing to try is to boot your NTSC A1200 into PAL mode through the early boot menu.

If this doesn't help either, then a hard boot to PAL is also possible by cutting off a pin from the Alice chip (can't recall which one atm). This also allows for a possibility of installing a PAL/NTSC switch.

Unless the hardware conversion from NTSC to PAL is performed, you will never get a true PAL display though, but rather what is called NTSC50 (i.e. PAL60 when booting into NTSC display on a PAL Amiga).

Lots of things to try though and good luck on your chosen path.

I already heard about that hack on the Alice chip but i can't get my hands on some pics to do that.
I was said that this hack was on Aminet but i couldn't find it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claw22000

Amigakit has pal a1200 systems for sale why did u check there?

They are out of stock. I wish they have them i defenitly would bought one.

Claw22000 · 05 May 2011, 18:24

Wow I was looking at one about a week ago. Damn they move fast. With all the amiga hardware I see moving I bet there will be a market for those fpga replay boards. They should come with an addon board to fit the A1200 case so you can't tell the differance.

paulo_becas · 05 May 2011, 18:31

The 1200's are starting to be more dificult to get and are getting expensive as well, people are starting to hold them with hands and teeth

Maybe, who knows, Individual computers start to build them, they make all sorts of hardware for them why not thinking in a replacement?
Not like the X1000 because those are or will be very expensive but something more cheap.
Who knows

magnetic · 07 May 2011, 03:10

Guys

Does a PAL amiga put out NTSC signals on the RGB port (for genlocking ntsc) when in PAL mode or not?

Claw22000 · 07 May 2011, 03:16

That is a good question I know Ray will know the answer when I see him saturday I will try to remember to ask him as he knows alot about Genlock stuff.

Jope · 07 May 2011, 12:10

RGB is colour encoding agnostic. All Amigas output the same type of signal from the 23pin video port.

The horizontal and vertical refresh frequencies are determined by the screen mode you have selected.

Generally any Amiga with a 1MB Agnus or newer will be able to display both PAL and NTSC compatible refresh rates.

paulo_becas · 09 May 2011, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

RGB is colour encoding agnostic. All Amigas output the same type of signal from the 23pin video port.

The horizontal and vertical refresh frequencies are determined by the screen mode you have selected.

Generally any Amiga with a 1MB Agnus or newer will be able to display both PAL and NTSC compatible refresh rates.

Then i should not have any problem with my 1084S-P1 Monitor?
The monitor manual says it's a PAL Monitor.
What about the Scart cable pluged in an LCD TV? Is it true that i see no colour what so ever?

Jope · 09 May 2011, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulo_becas

Then i should not have any problem with my 1084S-P1 Monitor?
The monitor manual says it's a PAL Monitor.

It is PAL if you use LCA (S-Video) or Composite. With RGB it doesn't matter what style of Amiga you connect to it.

Quote:

What about the Scart cable pluged in an LCD TV? Is it true that i see no colour what so ever?

It shouldn't display colour in any case. LCD TVs are a bit picky on the Amiga's signal however.

paulo_becas · 09 May 2011, 17:16

Can someone please tell me where can i find the Alice chip hack pictures? I don't intend to mess with it without some graphical help.

03 May 2011, 12:57	#1
paulo_becas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 464	Questions about NTSC Amiga 1200 I just f*** things up while messing with my PAL 1200 and damaged the Motherboard. I ordered one NTSC board from Vesalia and a lot of questions were raised. 1. Can i convert a NTSC Board to PAL? 2. If not, Does it work well with a 1084S Monitor? 3. Am i going to experience problems with WHDLoad games? 4. Does Indivision Flicker Fixer solve the problem? 5. Talking about Indivision Flicker Fixer, does anyone knows when they are going to be sold again? Amigakit says that they probably arrive this year. Please help me out.

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03 May 2011, 15:24	#4
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	here is a post explaining how to convert from Pal to NTSC. You need to do the opposite to convert from NTSC to Pal http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57868 You can use the parts from your broken Pal motherboard to do the conversion. This is not an easy job, you will need good soldering skills

04 May 2011, 13:01	#7
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	Rkaeur, Can't agree with you in Pal mode on the WHDload issue. Pal mode will not always work correctly on games. try playing Superfrog for example on an NTSC A1200 with the Pal switch and you will see the speed is all wrong. Some games will just not work correctly

05 May 2011, 09:35	#9
paulo_becas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 464	So i will experience problems no matter what? I see that the only thing i can do to eliminate all those issues is converting the board back to PAL. Well as soon as i get it i'll give it a try and post every move a make using pictures since theres not much info on this. Let's see what happens.

05 May 2011, 15:00	#10
x56h34 Posts: n/a	I've never had issues with WHDLoad and PAL games on my NTSC A1200, however... If there are issues with using the PAL tooltype in WHDLoad, then another thing to try is to boot your NTSC A1200 into PAL mode through the early boot menu. If this doesn't help either, then a hard boot to PAL is also possible by cutting off a pin from the Alice chip (can't recall which one atm). This also allows for a possibility of installing a PAL/NTSC switch. Unless the hardware conversion from NTSC to PAL is performed, you will never get a true PAL display though, but rather what is called NTSC50 (i.e. PAL60 when booting into NTSC display on a PAL Amiga). Lots of things to try though and good luck on your chosen path.

05 May 2011, 15:38	#11
Claw22000 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Paul, MN/USA Age: 46 Posts: 222	Amigakit has pal a1200 systems for sale why did u check there?

05 May 2011, 18:24	#13
Claw22000 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Paul, MN/USA Age: 46 Posts: 222	Wow I was looking at one about a week ago. Damn they move fast. With all the amiga hardware I see moving I bet there will be a market for those fpga replay boards. They should come with an addon board to fit the A1200 case so you can't tell the differance.

05 May 2011, 18:31	#14
paulo_becas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 464	The 1200's are starting to be more dificult to get and are getting expensive as well, people are starting to hold them with hands and teeth Maybe, who knows, Individual computers start to build them, they make all sorts of hardware for them why not thinking in a replacement? Not like the X1000 because those are or will be very expensive but something more cheap. Who knows

07 May 2011, 03:10	#15
magnetic Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 244	Guys Does a PAL amiga put out NTSC signals on the RGB port (for genlocking ntsc) when in PAL mode or not?

07 May 2011, 03:16	#16
Claw22000 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Paul, MN/USA Age: 46 Posts: 222	That is a good question I know Ray will know the answer when I see him saturday I will try to remember to ask him as he knows alot about Genlock stuff.

07 May 2011, 12:10	#17
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,916	RGB is colour encoding agnostic. All Amigas output the same type of signal from the 23pin video port. The horizontal and vertical refresh frequencies are determined by the screen mode you have selected. Generally any Amiga with a 1MB Agnus or newer will be able to display both PAL and NTSC compatible refresh rates.

09 May 2011, 17:16	#20
paulo_becas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 464	Can someone please tell me where can i find the Alice chip hack pictures? I don't intend to mess with it without some graphical help.

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