Apidya WHDLoad - Page 3

laser · 04 July 2007, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bippym

You really do not know what you are talking about do you!

If there is not enough ram the game would cease to work, not run slowly.. Learn your shit please

Ahh ...you are an expert I see...so
why zool 2 runs faster from floopy?

killergorilla · 04 July 2007, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by laser

maybe your workbench eats less chip memory than Graham 'workbench
maybe you use Fblit and Graham don't use it.....don't know

Have you ever actually heard of WHDLoad?

girv · 04 July 2007, 16:47

There's sooo much fun to be had with laser's replies, but I'll pass for now. I reckon it's just CFou having some trolling fun anyway

Maybe I'll reply later when I've had a few beers though

@rgen: if the external "don't cache this" signal is the cause of the slowdowns, how come disabling the CPU data cache entirely or marking chipmem as non-cacheable with the MMU does not help? Perhaps the CPU always restarts the memory access operation if it receives the external signal, no matter if the access is cacheable or not ? Dumb, but I could believe it!

Shoonay · 04 July 2007, 16:53

STFU YOU GUYS!

I'm with laser all the way on this!
WHDLoad sucks so much I DENY IT'S EXISTANCE!!!

BippyM · 04 July 2007, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by laser

Ahh ...you are an expert I see...so
why zool 2 runs faster from floopy?

Prove to me it runs faster from floppy on 2 identical systems!

I understand common logic and not having enough memory to run a game would have different consequences to a game running slower (unless data is loaded as you play, in which case floppy would be slower!)

Think about it.. Not enough memory wouldn't have a lot to do with the scrolling speed of the blitter etc, or the amount of sprites/bobs on the screen (though memory would be needed for them to be redrawn in ram before display, but again this would lead to gfx corruption and not slowdown!)

Please stop making out you know everything and listen to others who know more than bnoth of us..

rgen · 04 July 2007, 17:55

@girv

I'm no expert myself and just quoted from the whdload doc, also the whdload developer archive has some speed test results from 040/060 cards which shows that with enabled instruction cache these cards are faster than a 030 card which mystify the whole thing for me. Maybe we should ask Wepl for some clarification?

Graham Humphrey · 04 July 2007, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by laser

maybe Graham' computer have been possessed by Satan

Satan just doesn't know when to stop does he? He's done this before, I've warned him but he just can't resist. I'll have to give him a ring this evening and give him a stern talking to.

Marcuz · 04 July 2007, 19:44

this thread is really funny, thanks guys for being funny in the head yet polite

09 July 2007, 03:44

well just for some added info.. I'm using the WHDLoad version on an a4000 equipped with a full 040..
World 4 (ie the R-Type style levels) produces bad slow-down 99% of the time, however I'm not complaining as it makes it easier to avoid enemy fire lol.. and I've never seen this world running on a 500 so cant compare.

I do remember Apidya losing framerate occasionally on a 1meg a500, and since this was the the hardware the game was designed to run on I dont believe there is any real issue here..
The WHDLoad version (with nocache enabled) seems to be identical to the a500 in terms of framerate.. bring on the CodeHammerer's post

girv · 09 July 2007, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgen

the whdload developer archive has some speed test results from 040/060 cards which shows that with enabled instruction cache these cards are faster than a 030 card which mystify the whole thing for me.

Just after the part of the docs you quoted it says external hardware should only mark chipmem as non-cacheable for the data cache, not the instruction cache. I guess enabling the i-cache for chipmem would give a speedup as there will be no external signal to the processor to restart the memory accesses for instruction fetching.

040/060 have a much larger i-cache (4K? 8K?) compared to the 030 (256 bytes) so they would likely see a larger speedup.

Just guessing

I'd need to delve into the CPU manuals to get the full information on how this all works...

rgen · 09 July 2007, 10:59

@girv

I expressed myself not clear enough. What I wanted to say is that the 040/060 cpus still have more accesses to the chip ram than a 030 despite their access restarts as long as the instruction cache is enabled. The only explanation for the slowdowns I see is that these are broken boards which also disables instruction caching for chip ram.

The cache size is 4K for 040 and 8K for the 060.

EmuChicken · 11 July 2007, 10:54

[EDIT by Graham: the following four posts (including this one) have been split from the thread "EAB Games League Season 1 Round 3 - Apidya" as it seems more relevant here - feel free to shoot me if you think it's a bad idea ]

damnit! the apidya whdload slave on my amiga changes the signal into PAL!

I cant see crap on my NTSC TV!

so unfair!

killergorilla · 11 July 2007, 11:01

So it looks like crap even with the NTSC tooltype set?

EmuChicken · 11 July 2007, 11:14

... for some reason I cant even get into the info screen! ... but I set it to NTSC as default ... gah... this is my problem... my curse

killergorilla · 11 July 2007, 11:23

Hmm... If I recall the one in my packs is the with AUDIOS displayed under the title screen, not KAIKO. Maybe the one displaying KAIKO works better with NTSC amigas?

We can only try I suppose?

Graham Humphrey · 12 July 2007, 13:00

Indeed, the slave seems to override the NTSC tooltype (I tried it this morning, it briefly switches to NTSC but as soon as the AUDIOS screen appears it switches back to PAL). The slave is really, really old and I would guess it needs updating.

killergorilla · 12 July 2007, 13:04

That is strange. Has anyone tried installing the other version?

I know they are both EU region but maybe, just maybe it works in a slightly different way? I don't have time to check this out until sometime next week though.

girv · 12 July 2007, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

The slave is really, really old and I would guess it needs updating.

I could take a look if you like ? I think I have the source somewhere.

Any other problems with it ?

Graham Humphrey · 12 July 2007, 14:03

Cheers, the WHDLoad-installed version is still in the Zone if you'd like to have a look at that as well, this is the version I've been using and I'm assuming this is the one EmuChicken tried.

I did get a seemingly random access fault a few days ago after just starting the game, but I didn't make a note of it or anything, however that's the only time it's ever happened.

StingRay · 12 July 2007, 14:10

Damn, where is this Laser guy now? I want to see more of his clueless replies, great fun!

04 July 2007, 17:55	#46
rgen Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Aachen/Germany Age: 46 Posts: 190	@girv I'm no expert myself and just quoted from the whdload doc, also the whdload developer archive has some speed test results from 040/060 cards which shows that with enabled instruction cache these cards are faster than a 030 card which mystify the whole thing for me. Maybe we should ask Wepl for some clarification? Attached Thumbnails

11 July 2007, 10:54	#52
EmuChicken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nagoya, Japan (moved!) Age: 41 Posts: 746	[EDIT by Graham: the following four posts (including this one) have been split from the thread "EAB Games League Season 1 Round 3 - Apidya" as it seems more relevant here - feel free to shoot me if you think it's a bad idea ] damnit! the apidya whdload slave on my amiga changes the signal into PAL! I cant see crap on my NTSC TV! so unfair! Last edited by Graham Humphrey; 11 July 2007 at 18:36.

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04 July 2007, 16:47	#43
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,114	There's sooo much fun to be had with laser's replies, but I'll pass for now. I reckon it's just CFou having some trolling fun anyway Maybe I'll reply later when I've had a few beers though @rgen: if the external "don't cache this" signal is the cause of the slowdowns, how come disabling the CPU data cache entirely or marking chipmem as non-cacheable with the MMU does not help? Perhaps the CPU always restarts the memory access operation if it receives the external signal, no matter if the access is cacheable or not ? Dumb, but I could believe it!

04 July 2007, 16:53	#44
Shoonay Global Caturator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Porando Age: 43 Posts: 6,107	STFU YOU GUYS! I'm with laser all the way on this! WHDLoad sucks so much I DENY IT'S EXISTANCE!!!

04 July 2007, 19:44	#48
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	this thread is really funny, thanks guys for being funny in the head yet polite

09 July 2007, 03:44	#49
VermillioN Posts: n/a	well just for some added info.. I'm using the WHDLoad version on an a4000 equipped with a full 040.. World 4 (ie the R-Type style levels) produces bad slow-down 99% of the time, however I'm not complaining as it makes it easier to avoid enemy fire lol.. and I've never seen this world running on a 500 so cant compare. I do remember Apidya losing framerate occasionally on a 1meg a500, and since this was the the hardware the game was designed to run on I dont believe there is any real issue here.. The WHDLoad version (with nocache enabled) seems to be identical to the a500 in terms of framerate.. bring on the CodeHammerer's post

09 July 2007, 10:59	#51
rgen Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Aachen/Germany Age: 46 Posts: 190	@girv I expressed myself not clear enough. What I wanted to say is that the 040/060 cpus still have more accesses to the chip ram than a 030 despite their access restarts as long as the instruction cache is enabled. The only explanation for the slowdowns I see is that these are broken boards which also disables instruction caching for chip ram. The cache size is 4K for 040 and 8K for the 060.

11 July 2007, 11:01	#53
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	So it looks like crap even with the NTSC tooltype set?

11 July 2007, 11:14	#54
EmuChicken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nagoya, Japan (moved!) Age: 41 Posts: 746	... for some reason I cant even get into the info screen! ... but I set it to NTSC as default ... gah... this is my problem... my curse

11 July 2007, 11:23	#55
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Hmm... If I recall the one in my packs is the with AUDIOS displayed under the title screen, not KAIKO. Maybe the one displaying KAIKO works better with NTSC amigas? We can only try I suppose?

12 July 2007, 13:00	#56
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Indeed, the slave seems to override the NTSC tooltype (I tried it this morning, it briefly switches to NTSC but as soon as the AUDIOS screen appears it switches back to PAL). The slave is really, really old and I would guess it needs updating.

12 July 2007, 13:04	#57
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	That is strange. Has anyone tried installing the other version? I know they are both EU region but maybe, just maybe it works in a slightly different way? I don't have time to check this out until sometime next week though.

12 July 2007, 14:03	#59
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Cheers, the WHDLoad-installed version is still in the Zone if you'd like to have a look at that as well, this is the version I've been using and I'm assuming this is the one EmuChicken tried. I did get a seemingly random access fault a few days ago after just starting the game, but I didn't make a note of it or anything, however that's the only time it's ever happened.

12 July 2007, 14:10	#60
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	Damn, where is this Laser guy now? I want to see more of his clueless replies, great fun!

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