21 May 2020, 21:57 | #21 |
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yeah they probably had to play them to death or enable a in-game trainer (there are almost always a trainer in games, to be able to test levels)... or know a guy who completed it...
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23 May 2020, 19:40 | #22 | ||
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https://is.gd/7MzNP6 Quote:
All Taito's Amiga coin-op conversions were copy-protected IIRC, which went against the norm in the American market at that time (as copy-protection had caused increasing resentment amongst the large C64 software customer base for a few years prior). Renegade was no exception and my original copy contains RNC protection, with the floppy having the telltale volume name of "Copylock Amiga Key Disk". If I'm not mistaken, the original supplied by Chris Vella for the WHDLoad version of Renegade was the U.S. release and pretty much confirms what I've said about the copy-protection. Last edited by DrBong; 23 May 2020 at 22:44. Reason: Fixed link! |
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23 May 2020, 20:14 | #23 |
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'Still Sealed'
Re-Sealed (if it ever was) more likely Possibly the disk went bad and they re-wrote it with an ADF ? |
23 May 2020, 21:34 | #24 | |
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Maybe the box in auction is original, but for Commodore 64 version? mobygames.com has some photos to compare: |
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23 May 2020, 21:35 | #25 |
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I'll also chime in. The US Taito boxes I have, the Amiga label look like the one on the Moby Games Amiga BoxArt listing.
As soon as I had seen that Amiga label in that eBay listing looked like a fake right away. All the Taito US box releases also have that serial number / batch label on the back (just below the copyright text). I know a little bit about these US release boxes. I also contributed the 'Taito Game Catalogue 1988' Misc Shots on HOL. |
23 May 2020, 22:47 | #26 |
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Thanks for the links to the mobygames.com photos! These are very helpful because they also have photos of the Atari ST box on that site, see here: https://www.mobygames.com/game/atari...gade/cover-art And guess what, this is indeed the very same box I got! Even the serial number sticker on the back of my box matches with the Atari ST box (0139-0143). The only difference is that there is an AMIGA sticker on the front. But the ATARI ST label isn't below the AMIGA sticker. I can see the box art below the sticker, there's no ATARI ST one below it.
Still, I think what we have got here is this: Someone took the Atari ST box, put an AMIGA sticker on front of it and copied the Quartex crack of Renegade to the disk. I still think, however, that this was done 30 years ago because the shrink wrap I removed didn't feel like new at all. It looked, felt, and smelled like very old shrink wrapping. So I think you're right that this is not the original Taito Amiga release but I don't think that this ebay guy who sold it to me is a fraud. Instead, I think that some US Amiga retailer made these fake Amiga versions of Renegade 30 years ago from his Atari ST stock. So the box and all accompanying material is genuine Taito stuff and not a replica. It's just that someone converted the Atari ST version into the Amiga version. Because of the age of the shrink wrapping this probably happened about 30 years ago. The fact that the QUARTEX crack text was only uncommented in the startup sequence but not overwritten in the main executable using a hex editor also is evidence that the guy who did this wasn't very experienced. So probably a shop owner or retailer but definitely not that ebay guy who is selling it because the shrink wrapping really is anything but new. |
23 May 2020, 23:14 | #27 |
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That's very plausible. Fake version from bits and pieces of original stuff from another platform...
Also note that sometimes a hex editor isn't enough to remove crack messages in games, because the files can have been unpacked+altered+repacked. Note: 20 years ago, I sold my original boxes and disks, and also bought second hand originals to be able to sell them back. I sold ALL my boxes & disks, but I must admit that in some cases I had overwritten the original versions by cracks (shame on me) just to get rid of the disk protection (of course, I made sure that there were no cracktros/crack text and all). But that was utterly stupid! Also I repaired the originals I bought because 50% of them didn't work. It often implied to copy a cracked version over the faulty disk. Noone ever complained, as the most precious item wasn't the disk contents (the games worked after all) but the box & manual & all. Last edited by jotd; 23 May 2020 at 23:21. |
24 May 2020, 07:54 | #28 | ||
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Quote:
It is very possible to re-shrink wrap a box. This seller is advertising a product as original where it obviously is not! You could put forward a complaint to ebay and let them investigate further. |
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24 May 2020, 08:47 | #29 |
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Just comparing the Front box pictures of the 1-Ebay Amiga box, 2-Org C64 box, 3-Org Amiga box.
The Taito logo in Pic1(1-Ebay Amiga box) looks the same as the Taito logo in Pic2(2-Org C64 box). Amiga sticker in Pic1(1-Ebay Amiga box) doesn't look like the orig amiga sticker as in Pic3(3-Org Amiga box) and both Taito logo's are different. Ebay one possibly a fake? |
24 May 2020, 14:18 | #30 |
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Maybe Taito themself re-used existing stock of C64 boxes for official Atari release and later some unknown party used that Atari release to "manufacture" the Amiga release which then ended up at ebay.
So the only "fake" parts in this case would be the Amiga sticker and the contents of disk. Guess we will never know.. |
24 May 2020, 16:31 | #31 | |
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The only thing that is fake is what's on the disk and maybe the Amiga sticker. I tried looking at the date stamp of s:startup-sequence on the disk, because it was modified by the person who compiled this package to not show the Quartex message, but unfortunately the date stamp is 1978, i.e. bad system clock settings. So it doesn't help us to tell when this was actually manufactured. All other files have 1987 datestamps. So the most plausible explanation is still that some retailer turned some Atari ST versions of Renegade into Amiga versions, probably because of higher demand for Amiga games |
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24 May 2020, 16:48 | #32 | |
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It's also entirely possible somebody would go through all the hassle to do it for profit, since these games are not cheap. Some things you can print, some others get from cheaply bought incomplete lots. And this dude has quite a few of such items "NEW! only one on ebay!!!1!" things, (interestingly most of his photos are done with a potato too, which is quite lame even if he's an honest'un). But, I'm absolutely not saying "definitely" or "100%" that it is what has happened in this case. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, and they are really some bizarre "originals". Like a4k-oerx has just said, most likely we'll never know. |
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24 May 2020, 17:03 | #33 | |
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Seriously, it's nonsense. This is the original Taito Atari ST release that has been amateurishly converted into an Amiga version. Everything else just doesn't make sense. |
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24 May 2020, 17:11 | #34 | |
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BUT, not in this case: Generally speaking you really underestimate the fakes which nowadays exist. There are fakes which even are hard to tell for professionals. They even fake the weld+position of heat shrink. Why ? Because you can make money with collectors. So if you don't know your stuff about fakes, then just saying "It's really easy to tell if it's in your hands" is worth nothing at all . If you're curious just google for console fakes, especially NES. |
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24 May 2020, 17:43 | #35 | |
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It's not that difficult to frankenstein together a convincing fake(s), especially if you deal in a lot of stuff over the years. Buy a few different Renegades somewhere, stitch them together, print this or that (or maybe nothing), shrink-wrap, and presto! I have an obscure Zelda Wind Waker Edition which I cobbled together from 2 different sources. And this explanation makes as much sense as the story about a renegade (pun intended) shop churning out strange hybrids of a rather lame port. You are also the buyer, who really wants to believe, so there's that too |
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24 May 2020, 18:04 | #36 | ||
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But what about your typical Amiga game in a cardboard box? Has there ever been a case of such a box being faked and then sold? I don't know of any. If there really have been such cases, please provide evidence... |
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24 May 2020, 18:15 | #37 |
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That was not my point.
My point was that you think you can tell something is genuine by touching it, and that's simply not true. There you underestimate today's fake quality. You can probably be sure that at least your box+docs is legit, as - as you said - the market for Amiga fakes isn't big enough. That's a at least valid argument. That can't be said about your impression of the look+feel. |
24 May 2020, 18:22 | #38 | |
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Yeah, we can't be 100% sure. But using some common sense we can be 99.9% sure that this is the Atari ST version of Renegade. Claiming this to be a replica is about as plausible as claiming Bill Gates invented the coronavirus |
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24 May 2020, 18:27 | #39 |
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Alrighty, let's move on now people...
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25 May 2020, 07:44 | #40 |
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Original Renegade by Taito - cracked by Quartex?
A lot of the ST stuff came on two disks vs the Amigas 1 disk. (Single sided disks) so I bet the seller used the 2 ST disks to make two Amiga versions. Question is where did he get the second box? This was clearly a swap a roo to make more $.
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