Problem booting into workbench with HDD

SupahFlyRetard · 19 April 2009, 23:05

Hello

I'm using a maxtor 40 gig harddrive that I want to connect to my amiga 500. I've hooked it up to my pc, formatted and installed workbenc 2 using WinUAE and booting from WinUAE works without problems.

I run into trouble when I connect the drive to my amiga 500. I cannot get it to recognize the drive at all. I have an old 40 megabyte harddrive which works fine but I dont want to use it as I want more capacity and less noise (the old one is extremely noisy).

I take it I need to set the hd-pins to "master"? Is it not possible to use a newer harddrive models with amiga 500s even though they are IDE?

I dont have a workbench floppy so I cant say if the drive shows up in wb but i doubt it since it doesnt show up in the boot menu when I hold both mouse buttons.

Help please!

DoogUK · 19 April 2009, 23:10

What version of kickstart does your 500 have?

thomas · 19 April 2009, 23:12

Probably the controller is not RDB-compatible. In this case the HDD has to be installed with the sofware which came with the controller. No other software will work. Also most likely the controller does not support HDDs bigger than 500 MB or so. Might not even be IDE but MFM, then you are lost.

SupahFlyRetard · 19 April 2009, 23:52

Thanks for your replies!

I have an A500 plus so its kickstart 2.04 I believe.

Hmm ok so if I open up the amiga maybe I can get a name of the controller - or find it on the hdd I got with it.

The weird thing is that the hdd I got with the amiga isnt recognized by windows or winuae properly. I can add it aas a harddrive in winua but it doesnt know that it is formatted - and winuae wont boot with it.

I've played around with formatting/installation using an A1200 kickstart aswell but I guess the filesystem is the same and this should not affect things.

Im not fussed if i can only use 500 megs out of the 40 gig I have but I justw ant to get rid of the old noisy drive.

So, at the moment I have 2 HDDs, one 40 gig which works in winuae but not on my amiga. I also hae a 40 meg drive which works on my amiga but not the other way around.

So - should I just give up and get an older hdd? The controller must be a bit of a hack since I have an IDE cable sticking out of the 500 and just a hd with no case and external powersupply.

Arrrrgh this is so frustrating!

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupahFlyRetard

The weird thing is that the hdd I got with the amiga isnt recognized by windows or winuae properly. I can add it aas a harddrive in winua but it doesnt know that it is formatted - and winuae wont boot with it.

Does old drive still say "RDSK" or "RDB" (I don't remember which) in "Add harddrive" dialog?

EDIT: Does hdtoolbox (in real Amiga) detect the drive and partitions? (or only drive but shows it unpartitioned?)

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 09:39

The old drive just says undefined or something in WinUAE. The new drive however displays RDB.

I haven't tried hdtoolbox with the old drive but it does not have any artitions I know that much. It shows up instantly when I power up the amiga (as hd0) and bring up the boot menu, but the new drive does not.

Isnät it weird that I can't get winuae to recognize the old drive?

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupahFlyRetard

Isnät it weird that I can't get winuae to recognize the old drive?

No, it only means your controller is not using Amiga standard RDSK partition tables.

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 10:02

Ok, so what does that mean exactly? HDToolbox creates a different type of partition than what I need? I need to get a hold of the software with the controller?

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupahFlyRetard

Ok, so what does that mean exactly? HDToolbox creates a different type of partition than what I need? I need to get a hold of the software with the controller?

You need software that came with the controller. HDtoolbox won't work (it "works" but your controller's boot rom won't understand hdtoolbox partitioned drive)

Which controller?

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 11:58

I'm not sure, thats the problem. I guess I can open up the 500 and hope there's a name on it or something. Spoke to the guy I bought it from he wasnt sure there was any software with it, but he was going to look for some disks. he said that it may also be the size of the IDe drive, that my new one was simply too large.

Suppose I dont find any drivers, do I buy a new ide controller or new drive or what?

Amiga1992 · 20 April 2009, 14:13

If it's inside and it's IDE isn't it the ICE contoller? I don't know of any others...

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 15:00

Do you mean the AdIDE2 on this page? http://www.icd.com/amiga/

Well if its the only one available then maybe someone knows where I can get a hold of the software? I found the manual http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/AdIDE2.pdf

And in section 4.1 it describes the screen flashing in lightgrey,darkgrey,white. I need to find a program called ICDPrepHD. Edit: I found something at http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?amiga=cdtv where there is a .dms file which seems to be an install-disk!

Im gonna try all this when I get home, but I guess I should be able to run this software using WinUAE and prep my new drive?

Even if it turns out dont have this AdIDE2 controller, how could I get a hold of one? Seems pretty cool you can apparently connect 2 drives to it.

chiark · 20 April 2009, 15:02

indeed... it could be the adide from ICD
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/adide

Or alternatively and cfide68k
http://www.students.tut.fi/~leinone3/ide/ide68k.html

If it's the second one, it needs KS2.05+ to boot...

Pics. We need pics

(Not just to keep Zetr0 interested)

thomas · 20 April 2009, 15:15

Quote:

If it's the second one, it needs KS2.05+ to boot...

If it was the second one, it would be RDB-compatible.

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 15:17

Okok!

I'm gonna open up the sucker and post some pics as soon as I get home in about 3 hours.
Now we're getting somewhere! I think we can rule out the cfide68k since I have kick 2.04 and it boots with the old harddrive.

I read somewhere that the adide can't handle large harddrives, i.e. I would need to get myself a shittier older drive (which I really don't want to do as they are noisier). Can anyone confirm this? How about a CF card or a 2.5 drive (with some adapter I guess). That would rock if I could keep the drive inside the a500 casing.

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 15:19

Probably AdIDE because it isn't RDB compatible. Obviously it can't be any IDE adapter that uses ROM scsi.device

(I was too slow)

SupahFlyRetard · 20 April 2009, 15:42

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=408627
seems to claim that there is no real limit to the size of the hdd I want to connect. I think I might scrap the HDD Idea and use a CF card if I can just buy an adapter. I take it I wonät need any extra power like I would with a hdd?

Would one of these bad boys do? http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...er/adidecf.asp

thomas · 20 April 2009, 15:56

Quote:

Would one of these bad boys do?

Yes, they should work. But you should consider that a controller which is so old that it does not even support the RDB standard could probably refuse to work with modern devices like flash drives. Using CF cards is already a lucky job with common Amiga IDE controllers.

Amiga1992 · 20 April 2009, 16:02

Glad to know I was on the right path

I don't know much about A500 expansions but I remember the adverts of ICE that showed a super pimped-up A500 that had this IDE interface

Sucks that it wasn't RDB compatible!

Jope · 20 April 2009, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Probably AdIDE because it isn't RDB compatible. Obviously it can't be any IDE adapter that uses ROM scsi.device

(I was too slow)

Didn't you work on AdIDE compatibility for WinUAE back in 2001/02 or so? I seem to remember sending you a disk image. Did you take it out again? :-)

19 April 2009, 23:05	#1
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	Problem booting into workbench with HDD Hello I'm using a maxtor 40 gig harddrive that I want to connect to my amiga 500. I've hooked it up to my pc, formatted and installed workbenc 2 using WinUAE and booting from WinUAE works without problems. I run into trouble when I connect the drive to my amiga 500. I cannot get it to recognize the drive at all. I have an old 40 megabyte harddrive which works fine but I dont want to use it as I want more capacity and less noise (the old one is extremely noisy). I take it I need to set the hd-pins to "master"? Is it not possible to use a newer harddrive models with amiga 500s even though they are IDE? I dont have a workbench floppy so I cant say if the drive shows up in wb but i doubt it since it doesnt show up in the boot menu when I hold both mouse buttons. Help please!

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19 April 2009, 23:10	#2
DoogUK Doogster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dorset Posts: 1,069	What version of kickstart does your 500 have?

19 April 2009, 23:12	#3
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,780	Probably the controller is not RDB-compatible. In this case the HDD has to be installed with the sofware which came with the controller. No other software will work. Also most likely the controller does not support HDDs bigger than 500 MB or so. Might not even be IDE but MFM, then you are lost.

19 April 2009, 23:52	#4
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	Thanks for your replies! I have an A500 plus so its kickstart 2.04 I believe. Hmm ok so if I open up the amiga maybe I can get a name of the controller - or find it on the hdd I got with it. The weird thing is that the hdd I got with the amiga isnt recognized by windows or winuae properly. I can add it aas a harddrive in winua but it doesnt know that it is formatted - and winuae wont boot with it. I've played around with formatting/installation using an A1200 kickstart aswell but I guess the filesystem is the same and this should not affect things. Im not fussed if i can only use 500 megs out of the 40 gig I have but I justw ant to get rid of the old noisy drive. So, at the moment I have 2 HDDs, one 40 gig which works in winuae but not on my amiga. I also hae a 40 meg drive which works on my amiga but not the other way around. So - should I just give up and get an older hdd? The controller must be a bit of a hack since I have an IDE cable sticking out of the 500 and just a hd with no case and external powersupply. Arrrrgh this is so frustrating!

20 April 2009, 09:39	#6
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	The old drive just says undefined or something in WinUAE. The new drive however displays RDB. I haven't tried hdtoolbox with the old drive but it does not have any artitions I know that much. It shows up instantly when I power up the amiga (as hd0) and bring up the boot menu, but the new drive does not. Isnät it weird that I can't get winuae to recognize the old drive?

20 April 2009, 10:02	#8
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	Ok, so what does that mean exactly? HDToolbox creates a different type of partition than what I need? I need to get a hold of the software with the controller?

20 April 2009, 11:58	#10
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	I'm not sure, thats the problem. I guess I can open up the 500 and hope there's a name on it or something. Spoke to the guy I bought it from he wasnt sure there was any software with it, but he was going to look for some disks. he said that it may also be the size of the IDe drive, that my new one was simply too large. Suppose I dont find any drivers, do I buy a new ide controller or new drive or what?

20 April 2009, 14:13	#11
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,579	If it's inside and it's IDE isn't it the ICE contoller? I don't know of any others...

20 April 2009, 15:00	#12
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	Do you mean the AdIDE2 on this page? http://www.icd.com/amiga/ Well if its the only one available then maybe someone knows where I can get a hold of the software? I found the manual http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/AdIDE2.pdf And in section 4.1 it describes the screen flashing in lightgrey,darkgrey,white. I need to find a program called ICDPrepHD. Edit: I found something at http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?amiga=cdtv where there is a .dms file which seems to be an install-disk! Im gonna try all this when I get home, but I guess I should be able to run this software using WinUAE and prep my new drive? Even if it turns out dont have this AdIDE2 controller, how could I get a hold of one? Seems pretty cool you can apparently connect 2 drives to it.

20 April 2009, 15:02	#13
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,695	indeed... it could be the adide from ICD http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/adide Or alternatively and cfide68k http://www.students.tut.fi/~leinone3/ide/ide68k.html If it's the second one, it needs KS2.05+ to boot... Pics. We need pics (Not just to keep Zetr0 interested)

20 April 2009, 15:17	#15
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	Okok! I'm gonna open up the sucker and post some pics as soon as I get home in about 3 hours. Now we're getting somewhere! I think we can rule out the cfide68k since I have kick 2.04 and it boots with the old harddrive. I read somewhere that the adide can't handle large harddrives, i.e. I would need to get myself a shittier older drive (which I really don't want to do as they are noisier). Can anyone confirm this? How about a CF card or a 2.5 drive (with some adapter I guess). That would rock if I could keep the drive inside the a500 casing.

20 April 2009, 15:19	#16
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 48 Posts: 25,813	Probably AdIDE because it isn't RDB compatible. Obviously it can't be any IDE adapter that uses ROM scsi.device (I was too slow)

20 April 2009, 15:42	#17
SupahFlyRetard Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Stockholm Posts: 50	http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=408627 seems to claim that there is no real limit to the size of the hdd I want to connect. I think I might scrap the HDD Idea and use a CF card if I can just buy an adapter. I take it I wonät need any extra power like I would with a hdd? Would one of these bad boys do? http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...er/adidecf.asp

20 April 2009, 16:02	#19
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,579	Glad to know I was on the right path I don't know much about A500 expansions but I remember the adverts of ICE that showed a super pimped-up A500 that had this IDE interface Sucks that it wasn't RDB compatible!

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