new amiga 500 doom like !

[Amigajay]

Thanks for the update Tsak!

Those screenshots look amazing btw! I love the style Grind is heading towards!

And as much as you want to make it a perfect first game, don’t let feature creep be the better of you, imo things like music can always go in a further episode/sequel, same for anything time consuming that isn’t heavily related on the overall gameplay and set of final maps.

[Gzegzolka]

As much as I would love to hear about updates I admit I understood that writing those updates posts also require lot of time and even more time to respond community comments. I do not mind how much time You spend on Your project as long as I know it will be finished someday. It's hobby and there are other stuff that require time too, friends, family, job etc.

[d4rk3lf]

Amazing news Tsak.

Keep up the great work!

[eXeler0]

Great stuff indeed. Hope it remains playable on a stock A500 (1MB)

[AJCopland]

Game dev takes time, good game dev takes ages! That's just the way it is.

I think you're doing great work, technically amazing stuff, fantastic artwork. I'm loving seeing it all happen.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

And as much as you want to make it a perfect first game, don’t let feature creep be the better of you, imo things like music can always go in a further episode/sequel, same for anything time consuming that isn’t heavily related on the overall gameplay and set of final maps.

Well I'd hardly call getting music in 'future creep' (and this goes for any other project)
The ST version has music both in the menus and in-game you know. Are you ready to call defeat with the Amiga version that easily?

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Well I'd hardly call getting music in 'future creep' (and this goes for any other project)
The ST version has music both in the menus and in-game you know. Are you ready to call defeat with the Amiga version that easily?

I only put that as you type you needed to find a ‘solution’ to add music, so it wasn’t just a case of dropping it in there real quick.

Didn’t know the ST one did already though, so, well, when we say ST music

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Well I'd hardly call getting music in 'future creep' (and this goes for any other project)
The ST version has music both in the menus and in-game you know. Are you ready to call defeat with the Amiga version that easily?

Why not add ambient noise like Doom on PS1?

[BSzili]

The ambient music in PSX Doom was more than just "noise" I agree about the ambient part though, that would probably fit the current art direction. I'm sure they will come up with something cool.

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Well I'd hardly call getting music in 'future creep' (and this goes for any other project)
The ST version has music both in the menus and in-game you know. Are you ready to call defeat with the Amiga version that easily?

Agree! If you are short on memory, and specially considering your art direction for the project, an atmospheric music ala Quake will suit you perfectly and save a lot of kb and time.

[ Show youtube player ]

[TCD]

Originally Posted by x-vision

Agree! If you are short on memory, and specially considering your art direction for the project, an atmospheric music ala Quake will suit you perfectly and save a lot of kb and time.

I don't think ambient 'music' like in Quake will 'save a lot of kb'. Actually if done properly quite the opposite. Something using only small samples will.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

Why not add ambient noise like Doom on PS1?

Well, when I say 'we need music' this includes ambient or even just environmental sounds. Currently and besides your interaction with the enemies (or picking up items occasionally), there is complete and utter silence throughout the game. And it goes beyond that, no trace of music or anything like that in the menus or anywhere else. So any progress on that front is gonna massively upgrade the atmosphere (and overall quality) of the game.

Originally Posted by Amigajay

I only put that as you type you needed to find a ‘solution’ to add music, so it wasn’t just a case of dropping it in there real quick.

Right, the thing is that nearly all of the items on my list are not just extras but very basic stuff that can have a big impact on the project's quality. In that sense, -imho- the list is rather moderate (and very realistic), even if it still requires a lot of work.

Believe me, when talking about feature creep, there are a gazillion other things that could easily bloat the game beyond (what I would consider) absolute essentials. Examples being a cinematic intro or outro, an open or persistent world, rpg like elements and stats, multiple character selection, powers or a magic system (ala Bioshock), an 100% original gunplay system, expanded enemy roster and many bosses, dialogue, cutscenes, expanded multiplayer and netplay etc. These are things I would indeed consider 'feature creep' and hopefully the list includes no such items. In fact it is so grounded (and stripped down to the very basics), that it doesn't even include things that were actually planned from the Dread days, like variable heights, fluids (such as going underwater), a unique cross sample/wavetable synthesis music system (with its own format), expanded tool and script abilities and many, many others.

Originally Posted by x-vision

Agree! If you are short on memory, and specially considering your art direction for the project, an atmospheric music ala Quake will suit you perfectly and save a lot of kb and time.

Thanks, this is indeed one of my go-to examples
I really love Reznor's work with Quake, in fact his industrial style is definitely one of my direct influences for the project. This mod track I made a few months back is a possible candidate btw:

[ Show youtube player ]

Beyond that (and in regards to in-game music) note that ambient like in your example is hardly a 'Ram saver'. Actually quite the opposite, cause it relies on long modulating samples, hence it takes quite a lot more ram compared to the short samples needed for more conventional melodic or rhythmic style music.

Originally Posted by TCD

I don't think ambient 'music' like in Quake will 'save a lot of kb'. Actually if done properly quite the opposite. Something using only small samples will.

Exactly

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by Tsak

[ Show youtube player ]

Nice track

Originally Posted by Tsak

Beyond that (and in regards to in-game music) note that ambient like in your example is hardly a 'Ram saver'. Actually quite the opposite, cause it relies on long modulating samples, hence it takes quite a lot more ram compared to the short samples needed for more conventional melodic or rhythmic style music.

I am well aware of that, but BTW I didn't mean to use samples (1MB) but procedurally generated sounds like in some sound engines.

[ Show youtube player ]

Paula is capable of creating very interesting sounds if properly coded. Imagine not having to use almost no sample at all for the music. Like I said: That is a real memory saver.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by x-vision

I am well aware of that, but BTW I didn't mean to use samples (1MB) but procedurally generated sounds like in some sound engines.

[ Show youtube player ]

Paula is capable of creating very interesting sounds if properly coded. Imagine not having to use almost no sample at all for the music. Like I said: That is a real memory saver.

Fun fact, KK actually was considering doing exactly that with a custom format for music that uses wavetable synthesis. But this is very low on his priorities, so I don't know if it will be implemented anytime soon, meaning I'll probably explore other options to bring music in.

Btw the sfx system is already scripted, you can create large and complicated sequences out of tiny samples (or longer ones, it's up to the user). So it is ridiculously powerful already, allowing for high quality and varied sfx with minimum ram footprint.

[abraXXious]

I have been following Dread for what seems like years now....... so Grind has really my interest piqued.

Any thought of having a few settings to tailor the game to more powerful hardware?

It's great that it will run on a 1MB A500, but most Amiga fans these days have upgraded systems, so it would be nice if the engine could take advantage of that, even if that meant small things like loading in higher quality samples and music, more frames of animation and running at a higher resolution etc.

Also, is there any target date for release?

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by abraXXious

Any thought of having a few settings to tailor the game to more powerful hardware?

Well, first the game needs (at least) to be able to run on such powerful hardware (the engine currently crashes on 030 and above) before I even start considering this.
Joking aside, of course I'm having thoughts (in general) but it's all very theoretical at the moment (and obviously rather low in regards to priorities).

Originally Posted by abraXXious

It's great that it will run on a 1MB A500, but most Amiga fans these days have upgraded systems, so it would be nice if the engine could take advantage of that, even if that meant small things like loading in higher quality samples and music, more frames of animation and running at a higher resolution etc.

-Loading higher quality samples is a possibility.
-For higher quality music, music support also needs to be added first before even considering something better. But that would require double the work on the music front.
-Same for animations, in general any audio/visual 'addition' comes with extra workload. F.e. higher resolution textures means a lot of additional repixeling, as current ones are custom made for the current res (this is part of why they look as readable).
-Finally in regards to supporting higher resolutions, that's extremely difficult cause the engine is locked. It would require a major rewrite to support anything else (and this would also come with further implications in regards to current used assets).

So overall and while I would (very much) like to support more powerful hardware, I remain highly skeptical about any such upgrades and I'd only consider them if they don't add extra, heavy layers of work (on top of the existing work). With that said I'll have a much better picture (of what is actually doable or not and at what cost) once all basic milestones/goals are first met (see this post)

Originally Posted by abraXXious

Also, is there any target date for release?

Nope, none yet. My only (soft) goal at the moment is to be (by the end of 2023) as close to a vertical slice as possible (means several of the milestones, mentioned in the above post, to have been completed).

[A500]

That showcase intro video is awesome, the sound creates a great mood

If I may be so bold as to suggest a correction in the intro text: it's means "it is", so "...fought it's wars...doing it's part..." should be "fought its wars...doing its part".

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by A500

That showcase intro video is awesome, the sound creates a great mood

If I may be so bold as to suggest a correction in the intro text: it's means "it is", so "...fought it's wars...doing it's part..." should be "fought its wars...doing its part".

Thank you, yes I'm aware of that mistake.
Unfortunately the video went up before I had a chance to correct it.

[Bren McGuire]

is not about the money more like the going around circles rewriting everything time and time again to scratch some developer itch for perfection or i dont know what goal.

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

Nobody paid any penny yet for a finished Grind game, so I don't see a similarity.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

is not about the money more like the going around circles rewriting everything time and time again to scratch some developer itch for perfection or i dont know what goal.

Can you elaborate more in regards to what part of this project has been going around circles or re-written exactly?