Perhaps this is why the Sinclair computers were crushed by Commodore early in the UK?

[pandy71]

Not sure about lack of popularity of Spectrum in Germany - in fact one of the first Spectrums i saw was bought in Germany for a whooping 799 DM somewhere in mid 80's, lot of Spectrum machines was imported into Poland from West Germany... C-64 was way more expensive than Spectrum, other popular machine was Atari (first 800XL and later 65XE) way cheaper than C64 - i would say that most of Amiga in PL was German ones (with German Keyboard) - they were imported directly from German shops into Poland.
Spectrum clones was also popular in former soviet bloc - East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland etc.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Dunny

C64 was, like the BBC, way too expensive. Rich kids had them.

I always thought this was really interesting. I know it was accurate...
What is funny is that, in the US, Commodore was the cheap kids computer company. ;-)
Jack Tramiel: We need to build computers for the masses, not the classes.
Commodore was much less expensive than the Apple II and Atari 8-bits.

By the time my family could afford a computer, The Vic-20 was $99.
Yes, the TS1000 (US ZX81) was less, but with no sound and that keyboard, my parents were able to "splurge" on the Vic. ;-)
(Note: I have a TS1000 now, and really appreciate that little machine...)

But overseas, it was the opposite. Commodore was the expensive machine.
Which is also what happened by the time the Amiga came out, at least compared to Atari. So we did get Commodore being the more expensive machine, but not till later. And even then, it was never the rich kids machine... Those were Macs and PCs... ;-)

TBH, while I do remember the TS1000/ZX81 back then, I do not remember the Timex 2068 (US Spectrum).
According to the internet, it sold for $199 in the US on release in 83, and the C64 was still around/just under $400 then...
So I'm not sure what happened with that. I would think, Timex/Sinclair could have gotten some serious market share at that price if it would have been marketed better?

[Dunny]

Let's not also forget the Russian clones - the Pentagon, Didaktik Gamma, ATM Turbo, etc etc etc. Literally millions of those, all based on an interesting blend of TR-DOS (BetaDisk clone) and the Spectrum with a modified ROM.

I have no idea if the C64 got the same treatment though.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Not sure about lack of popularity of Spectrum in Germany

According to Wiki it was the second most popular home computer (behind the C64) until the CPC was released. So that's 1982 and 1983 then. As I said I never knew anyone that owned one and a lot of friends had the older machines of their siblings in the late 80s.

That 799 DM price sounds odd though as the introduction price of the 48k version was only 530 DM. I guess it was a seriously pimped machine

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Let's not also forget the Russian clones - the Pentagon, Didaktik Gamma, ATM Turbo, etc etc etc. Literally millions of those, all based on an interesting blend of TR-DOS (BetaDisk clone) and the Spectrum with a modified ROM.

I have no idea if the C64 got the same treatment though.

Funny fact: My wife who was born in Poland told me a lot about playing on a Pegasus console and for quite some time I didn't realise that it was a NES clone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(console)

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by TCD

According to Wiki it was the second most popular home computer (behind the C64) until the CPC was released. So that's 1982 and 1983 then. As I said I never knew anyone that owned one and a lot of friends had the older machines of their siblings in the late 80s.

That 799 DM price sounds odd though as the introduction price of the 48k version was only 530 DM. I guess it was a seriously pimped machine

Don't think so (i think it was naked ZX Spectrum 48K) - IIRC price 799DM from Neckermann catalogue but i can be wrong on this.

Originally Posted by TCD

Funny fact: My wife who was born in Poland told me a lot about playing on a Pegasus console and for quite some time I didn't realise that it was a NES clone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(console)

But this is half of 90's or perhaps even 2000...

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Let's not also forget the Russian clones - the Pentagon, Didaktik Gamma, ATM Turbo, etc etc etc. Literally millions of those, all based on an interesting blend of TR-DOS (BetaDisk clone) and the Spectrum with a modified ROM.

I have no idea if the C64 got the same treatment though.

C-64 no, definitely (i think too many custom IC's required) - ZX Spectrum had at least one clone in almost every country in former soviet bloc - i think ULA was relatively easy to be replaced or by TTL logic or be bought as spare part so it can be used for building clone. Z80 was produced by East Germany (they had semiconductor technology from Western Germany and also very strong industrial espionage). 6502 was produced only in Bulgaria so even russian Apple clone called Agat was build around 16 bit (K588) slow (CMOS) bit slice CPU - software compatibility was very poor due different CPU clock)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Don't think so (i think it was naked ZX Spectrum 48K) - IIRC price 799DM from Neckermann catalogue but i can be wrong on this.

Did a quick search and found this from the 86/87 Neckermann catalogue:
(the guy's haircut is worth posting this )

Still quite pricey (especially together with the 1541). Those catalogue offers were always more expensive though, so 799 DM doesn't sound that off then.

[jotd]

Michael J Fox got a new wig ?

[desiv]

Originally Posted by jotd

Michael J Fox got a new wig ?

OK, you made me open that image...
LOL... Yep, agreed.
That is one power business mullet!! ;-)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by desiv

That is one power business mullet!! ;-)

That's a perfect description Ah, the 80s

[Aulapatchuc]

Originally Posted by TCD

Ah, the 80s

Were absolutely great!!!


Big hair styles, lot's of good analog stuff and the beginning of the digital era.

[saimon69]

In italy i bought my spectrum for half a million of lire in 1983; couple weeks later the Commodore 64 came out at 825.000 lire - was better and with colors but at the time no software: i can tell there was a sizable amount of people with the spectrum, depending on the area - i knew several ones around my town; then the majority went with the vic 20 and the 64 - migrating to the 64 was a natural path for Vic 20 owners since they were able to use most of the peripherals.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by saimon69

In italy i bought my spectrum for half a million of lire in 1983

At that time everyone was a millionaire. (and if inflation continues we will all be millionaires again)

I got my c64 (old bread box one) + datasette + 2x quickshot joysticks for 700DM on autumn 1986. (including the importer's commission)

At that time, most of my colleagues in the class had c64 and only some had Spectrum. (so the choice was not difficult)
The only way you could get to another new game was to exchange. (so many of us started to program something ourselves)

There was also a program for c64 that simulated the operation of the ZX Spectrum in basic and could also load original basic programs and even images.
(but with somewhat slower execution, so that I had the opportunity to try that side as well)

[stevelord]

"Perhaps this is why the Sinclair computers were crushed by Commodore early in the UK?"


Lol what a title. Sinclair computers weren't crushed by Commodore, they were nearly crushed by Clive Sinclair not being able to manage finances, and chasing doomed projects like the C5 and QL. Amstrad pretty much rescued the Spectrum. Without them it would've died out in the mid 80s with the MSX. If anything Amstrad's commitment meant the Speccy only really started to die out in the early 90s. I was still playing Spectrum games after upgrading from an A500 to an A1200.

[Megalomaniac]

The Spectrum had so much more software available in the UK than the C64 at this point too, and had its advantages for some types of games and software. If the real-world price gap was so small, why were Spectrums still selling comparably to C64s in 1984?

The updated Spectrums definitely kept the machine viable, first the Plus with a proper keyboard in time for Christmas 1984 (£129.99 in early 1985), then the 128K models (£179.99 on launch in early 1986) with extra memory and improved sound, and later inbuilt tape (or disk) drivesa and joystick ports, whereas the C64 was unchanged for its whole decade. Spectrum games carried on outselling C64 (and Amiga) ones pretty late (1989 or so?), although the C64 remained commercially and technically viable for a year or two beyond the Spectrum (look at things like First Samurai or Mayhem for proof). With its bright primary colours and jolly sound the C64 had a good second life here as a cheap beginners' computer, something isometric monochrome games were never going to do. Which actually sold more in the UK throughout their lifespan, C64 or Spectrum?

[Phantasm]

I never had a joystick for the speccy and we used the portable black and white tv we already had so the difference would have been 129 vs 199. That's quite a significant percentage. In addition we sought necessarily know what the differences were for the price not that it would have mattered as most likely my parents would not have been able to afford the extra.

[saimon69]

[insert the usual like the speccy got a more accessible BASIC and take a LITTLE bit less to load with no turbo tape routines]

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by saimon69

[insert the usual like the speccy got a more accessible BASIC and take a LITTLE bit less to load with no turbo tape routines]

Sinclair BASIC was bloody good though, and C64 BASIC was abysmal. That's pretty much common knowledge.

...BBC BASIC was a whole other league but nobody had one so it's a moot point.

[Megalomaniac]

Spectrum BASIC was very non-standard though, so probably not the most transferrable one to learn. The Spectrum's loading was more reliable than the C64's, it's that (rather than any speed difference) which is what people who've owned both seem to remember. Even allowing for the C64 tape deck supposedly being cheaper than general ones you'd use with the Spectrum, £174 vs £239 (you needed a joystick to play most things on a C64, but could get by with only keyboard on a Spectrum, if need be - but you could add the joystick interface and joystick later) was a big gap in 1984