Which A500 SCSI interfaces are DMA-based?

Photon · 15 September 2009, 23:27

I.e. offloading the poor 68000 cpu... I know my Trumpcard 500 Pro is not DMA.

Any list of names of them somewhere? Or can you give me tips on how to recognize them by looking at PCB pics on Big Book of Amiga hardware or similar sites?

If you have one that is DMA, I'm interested in buying it, if it has fastram or ram sockets.

(ps. I guess not, but is there such a thing as DMA-based IDE interfaces?)

rkauer · 16 September 2009, 02:51

Only looking one by one of the A500 SCSI controllers...

Photon · 16 September 2009, 03:07

Huh?

Toni Wilen · 16 September 2009, 08:12

Perhaps by checking if there are 2 large chips, usually there is off-the-self SCSI controller chip + custom DMA controller chip.

There is also SCSI+DMA combo chips but I think they were introduced when A500 was expansion market was more or less dead already, for example 53C710 which was used in A4000T/A4091.

All Amiga IDE expansions are PIO-only

Lockon · 16 September 2009, 09:05

@Photon

Take a peek at amiga.resource.cx
Filter out A500 SCSI controller (some 39) models, most of them have description (DMA or PIO). Get a GVP ImpactII SCSI series for A500, they pop-up pretty often on eBay.

Damion · 17 September 2009, 09:28

The GVP sidecars utilize DMA... very nice controllers, and work fine here with SCSI -> IDE adapters and CF cards.

alexh · 17 September 2009, 10:39

The fastest DMA controller was reportadly the ICD Trifecta LX 500 but I've never seen one in the flesh.

http://www.icd.com/amiga/

Both IDE & SCSI capable.

PowerPie5000 · 17 September 2009, 11:26

I am selling a nice condition Commodore A590 populated with 2mb fast ram over at Amibay: http://amibay.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3295

And according to this website it is a "DMA" SCSI and XT controller: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a590

Photon · 17 September 2009, 18:50

Yeah, I'm sure that's a better interface than my Trumpcard 500 Pro. I guess there's no way of tricking it into mapping 8MB fast...?

I'll use this on a kick 2.0 A500-68040 with a Vesalia SCSI-IDE adapter to a CF card.

So I already have 4MB fast, but only in 68040 mode. (I guess I can tack on a switch on the A590 jumpers if there's a conflict, and switch it on only when in 68000 mode.)

rkauer · 18 September 2009, 03:30

The A590 is basically an A2091 crammed into small case ready to be added to the side of the A500.

They share same ROM chips, DMA controller, RAM and SCSI chips. You need the ROM 7.0 to use it with a 040 CPU.

Photon · 18 September 2009, 03:33

Thanks RKauer. Seems like the "Party mix" one is the last revision, should have ROM 7.0?

Do I need the ROM to autoboot, or to use it at all?

Someone have the ROM 7.0 image, in case I have to burn one?

rkauer · 18 September 2009, 04:44

I just have the physical 7.0 ROM. But the binary (Binddriver version) is available nearly everywhere.

As a matter of clarification: without the physical ROM attached to the board you cannot autoboot. And using a dirty trick to use an older version is not worth the hassle*

*Dirty trick (tm): use the old ROM version compatible with the boot drive in the controller, create a RAD: disk with the needed boot startup and drivers, kill the resident ROM version using a specific program, then boots from the RAD: issuing the binddrivers command with the newer binary ROM in the Expansion drawer.

Presto! Bigger drivers and even removable units recognized at the expense of a loooooong boot time.

It is possible to make this using the GVP controllers in one of mine A2000 Amiga (the one with the HC+8 and A3001: I use the boot IDE HD to transfer the boot to SCSI and then I issue a special program to KILL the lousy IDE ROM, then on SCSI boot I issue a binddriver command to call a special ROM remake who is able to use biger HDs on the IDE and even CD/DVD units!

Photon · 18 September 2009, 05:07

Found this, ofc not in the Zone 1.5 years later

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28081

This had no download link on any thread page http://eabmobile.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29825

The last one on this page seems to also be a patch for A4000 http://aminet.net/search?query=2091

And only a faq found searching for A590 there.

This list, while nice, have no download links, for obvious reasons http://kickstartrevival.dynalias.com/kickstart.html

Found this page with something called gururom omniscsidriver 6.14 for A2091 (and a nice list of max speeds with GVP vs A2091) http://babel.de/amiga.html

At this point I'm beginning to think that that was an overstatement of yours...

About ROM version: I do have a 2GB CF card, but the partitions are both <1GB. Does that help any?

A side-question: Could my dead Autoboot rom in my Trumpcard be replaced simply by burning the Binddrivers file from the latest install disk into a fresh EPROM? Sorry for the noob question.

rkauer · 18 September 2009, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Found this, ofc not in the Zone 1.5 years later

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28081

Add a new request and the archive will show.

Quote:

This had no download link on any thread page http://eabmobile.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29825

The last one on this page seems to also be a patch for A4000 http://aminet.net/search?query=2091

Some of those patches are just for the A4000. Test those only after you have yours SCSI booting and working.

Quote:

And only a faq found searching for A590 there.

This list, while nice, have no download links, for obvious reasons http://kickstartrevival.dynalias.com/kickstart.html

...And no remarks on the A2091/A590 ROM, too.

Quote:

Found this page with something called gururom omniscsidriver 6.14 for A2091 (and a nice list of max speeds with GVP vs A2091) http://babel.de/amiga.html

Babel's OmniSCSI ROM is a replacement board + newer ROM made some years ago. Now rare as hen's teeth (and expensive), but if you find it...

Quote:

At this point I'm beginning to think that that was an overstatement of yours...

About ROM version: I do have a 2GB CF card, but the partitions are both <1GB. Does that help any?

Nope. The total amount of cylinders/heads/MB/Jolie's bra size is what the ROM and prep tools (me too on Jolie's case) will look for, not the partitions.

Quote:

A side-question: Could my dead Autoboot rom in my Trumpcard be replaced simply by burning the Binddrivers file from the latest install disk into a fresh EPROM? Sorry for the noob question.

Not without byte swapping and even splitting, if the ROM itself is in two or more chips...

BTW: there is no n00b questions, just questions you didn't read or learnt before. No need to sorry, nobody here knows everything (but boy! We try!)

rkauer · 18 September 2009, 07:22

BTW2: With your Trumpcard pro you can chuck a half-length 4Mb RAM expansion!

If I have that controller I'll happily toss my Meta4 board into it.

Photon · 18 September 2009, 12:29

Well, buy it from me

Anyway, anyone wanna chuck ROM 7.0 in the Zone then!?

rkauer · 18 September 2009, 17:38

Oops! Found it!

In the Zone in a few minutes.

[EDIT] Zoned!

Photon · 18 September 2009, 21:48

Powerpie, you're gonna hate me now, but I have 3 harddisk interfaces in my apartment! (and some boxes with more goodies that I fetched from my old place today)...

I posted in the Amibay thread.

Photon · 18 September 2009, 22:31

Thanks, got it

I have a GVP running now... What ROM version do I need in a GVP Impact-Series-II A500-HD+? I have no problem with autobooting a 980MB partition on a 2GB card in A500-68040 mode, but the speed is slow. (Less than half than the speed if I switch into 68000 mode!! See the Speed Comparison thread here.)

Or should I burn some version of Binddrivers?

PowerPie5000 · 19 September 2009, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Powerpie, you're gonna hate me now, but I have 3 harddisk interfaces in my apartment! (and some boxes with more goodies that I fetched from my old place today)...

I posted in the Amibay thread.

Don't worry it's no problem at all... It's now been sold to prowler

15 September 2009, 23:27	#1
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Which A500 SCSI interfaces are DMA-based? I.e. offloading the poor 68000 cpu... I know my Trumpcard 500 Pro is not DMA. Any list of names of them somewhere? Or can you give me tips on how to recognize them by looking at PCB pics on Big Book of Amiga hardware or similar sites? If you have one that is DMA, I'm interested in buying it, if it has fastram or ram sockets. (ps. I guess not, but is there such a thing as DMA-based IDE interfaces?)

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16 September 2009, 02:51	#2
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Only looking one by one of the A500 SCSI controllers...

16 September 2009, 03:07	#3
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Huh?

16 September 2009, 08:12	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	Perhaps by checking if there are 2 large chips, usually there is off-the-self SCSI controller chip + custom DMA controller chip. There is also SCSI+DMA combo chips but I think they were introduced when A500 was expansion market was more or less dead already, for example 53C710 which was used in A4000T/A4091. All Amiga IDE expansions are PIO-only

16 September 2009, 09:05	#5
Lockon Air supremacy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rijeka Croatia Age: 49 Posts: 121	@Photon Take a peek at amiga.resource.cx Filter out A500 SCSI controller (some 39) models, most of them have description (DMA or PIO). Get a GVP ImpactII SCSI series for A500, they pop-up pretty often on eBay.

17 September 2009, 09:28	#6
Damion Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: US Posts: 315	The GVP sidecars utilize DMA... very nice controllers, and work fine here with SCSI -> IDE adapters and CF cards.

17 September 2009, 10:39	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	The fastest DMA controller was reportadly the ICD Trifecta LX 500 but I've never seen one in the flesh. http://www.icd.com/amiga/ Both IDE & SCSI capable.

17 September 2009, 11:26	#8
PowerPie5000 Miggy Ate My Hamster! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 1,566	I am selling a nice condition Commodore A590 populated with 2mb fast ram over at Amibay: http://amibay.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3295 And according to this website it is a "DMA" SCSI and XT controller: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a590

17 September 2009, 18:50	#9
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Yeah, I'm sure that's a better interface than my Trumpcard 500 Pro. I guess there's no way of tricking it into mapping 8MB fast...? I'll use this on a kick 2.0 A500-68040 with a Vesalia SCSI-IDE adapter to a CF card. So I already have 4MB fast, but only in 68040 mode. (I guess I can tack on a switch on the A590 jumpers if there's a conflict, and switch it on only when in 68000 mode.)

18 September 2009, 03:30	#10
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	The A590 is basically an A2091 crammed into small case ready to be added to the side of the A500. They share same ROM chips, DMA controller, RAM and SCSI chips. You need the ROM 7.0 to use it with a 040 CPU.

18 September 2009, 03:33	#11
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Thanks RKauer. Seems like the "Party mix" one is the last revision, should have ROM 7.0? Do I need the ROM to autoboot, or to use it at all? Someone have the ROM 7.0 image, in case I have to burn one?

18 September 2009, 04:44	#12
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	I just have the physical 7.0 ROM. But the binary (Binddriver version) is available nearly everywhere. As a matter of clarification: without the physical ROM attached to the board you cannot autoboot. And using a dirty trick to use an older version is not worth the hassle* Dirty trick (tm): use the old ROM version compatible with the boot drive* in the controller, create a RAD: disk with the needed boot startup and drivers, kill the resident ROM version using a specific program, then boots from the RAD: issuing the binddrivers command with the newer binary ROM in the Expansion drawer. Presto! Bigger drivers and even removable units recognized at the expense of a loooooong boot time. It is possible to make this using the GVP controllers in one of mine A2000 Amiga (the one with the HC+8 and A3001: I use the boot IDE HD to transfer the boot to SCSI and then I issue a special program to KILL the lousy IDE ROM, then on SCSI boot I issue a binddriver command to call a special ROM remake who is able to use biger HDs on the IDE and even CD/DVD units!

18 September 2009, 05:07	#13
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Found this, ofc not in the Zone 1.5 years later http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28081 This had no download link on any thread page http://eabmobile.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29825 The last one on this page seems to also be a patch for A4000 http://aminet.net/search?query=2091 And only a faq found searching for A590 there. This list, while nice, have no download links, for obvious reasons http://kickstartrevival.dynalias.com/kickstart.html Found this page with something called gururom omniscsidriver 6.14 for A2091 (and a nice list of max speeds with GVP vs A2091) http://babel.de/amiga.html At this point I'm beginning to think that that was an overstatement of yours... About ROM version: I do have a 2GB CF card, but the partitions are both <1GB. Does that help any? A side-question: Could my dead Autoboot rom in my Trumpcard be replaced simply by burning the Binddrivers file from the latest install disk into a fresh EPROM? Sorry for the noob question.

18 September 2009, 07:22	#15
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	BTW2: With your Trumpcard pro you can chuck a half-length 4Mb RAM expansion! If I have that controller I'll happily toss my Meta4 board into it.

18 September 2009, 12:29	#16
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Well, buy it from me Anyway, anyone wanna chuck ROM 7.0 in the Zone then!?

18 September 2009, 17:38	#17
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Oops! Found it! In the Zone in a few minutes. [EDIT] Zoned!

18 September 2009, 21:48	#18
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Powerpie, you're gonna hate me now, but I have 3 harddisk interfaces in my apartment! (and some boxes with more goodies that I fetched from my old place today)... I posted in the Amibay thread.

18 September 2009, 22:31	#19
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Thanks, got it I have a GVP running now... What ROM version do I need in a GVP Impact-Series-II A500-HD+? I have no problem with autobooting a 980MB partition on a 2GB card in A500-68040 mode, but the speed is slow. (Less than half than the speed if I switch into 68000 mode!! See the Speed Comparison thread here.) Or should I burn some version of Binddrivers?

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