Direct3D white scanlines?

NoX1911 · 01 December 2009, 01:15

I'm using 720x576 fullscreen/vsync 100Hz doubled Direct3D point32bit Scanlines/50%/50% and i get white scanlines. Shouldn't it be black alpha based scanlines? The white lines are not alpha blended to the actual video data either. I'm using win7 stock drivers atm so it may be an individual driver problem on my side.

When i press F12 for the first time (with Direct3D fullscreen) the winuae window needs 2-3 seconds to come up. After that it acts much quicker (enabling, disabling). This is normal?

beta23

Toni Wilen · 01 December 2009, 10:54

Remove all unnecessary variables first (vsync, I said I can't test 100Hz modes, fullscreen etc.. only basic windowed d3d)

D3D fullscreen + Windows GUI elements = slow display for some reason.

NewDeli · 01 December 2009, 23:42

Am I wrong assuming you're using those settings to record WinUAE output ? If that's the case, and don't mind scan lines appearing in the final project -not during playback, you could check out Sapphire (from GenArts), which is a pretty powerful plugin suite for After Effects.
It bears many filters among which custom (pitch black, "Matrix" green, grainy...) scan lines, that can easily be incorporated in a composition.

Or there is this elegant "manual" deinterlace method, using a simple horizontal lines pattern created in Photoshop :
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial/deinterlace_in_ae

Note that the videos that should be imported for processsing into After Effects are supposed to be TSCC raw, not previously encoded.

NoX1911 · 02 December 2009, 02:56

Thanks, but i'm not using hardcoded scanlines for recording and i strongly discourage anyone to do so. There are realtime postprocessors like ffdshow that can do the job individually in realtime during playback much better. It'd also break acceptable compression ratios.

@Toni Wilen:
I've tested on Windowed/D3D now and there's the same behavior. 'Scanline transparency' is somewhat dead. I can move the slider but nothing changes. It doesn't happen on your system?

The 'scanline level' slider is kinda strange. From 1-30 it looks subtractive (darker), going further its additive (brighter). Screenshot shows '30'.

Can someone else test that behavior (D3D/Scanlines) as well please?

NewDeli · 02 December 2009, 03:08

If you allow me, I didn't test it with the latest beta, but yeah I think the display is similar to the one on the right picture when I tried to trigger them.
I think PAL options from the drop-down box make it a bit more versatile filter, if you don't absolutely need to stick with D3D's.

For the delay in showing up the GUI, may be you could give a try to 50Hz AutoVsync.

NoX1911 · 02 December 2009, 04:06

Thank you. So hopefully isn't an individual problem on my side.
Same effect on 1.6.1.0 here as well. That's why i didn't post it in beta thread.

On a side note (if additional post-effects are wanted) MAME has different aperture grille and shadow mask simulation patterns. Small 4x8 up to 24x12 pixel patterns (with alphachannel) that are multiplied to the picture. Maybe easy to implement one day.

Toni Wilen · 02 December 2009, 08:26

I thought this was problem about D3D SCANLINES.

Deleauvive, try to stay on topic when answering..

NewDeli · 02 December 2009, 11:42

You mean you don't want NoX to also ask whether it's normal or not that PAL scanlines are not Alpha-blended

? (it seems dekarAF was happy with the PAL filter after having had some issues with the D3D filter).

I use a funnel technique when replying, it just takes or or two more "rounds" to get to the point (the less the better of course), but it may give us a chance to collect a bit more of information (and from NoX, it can never hurt) about the proceedings.

I mean to ask : Of what you could have been a reply such as "yes, it's normal" or "Wait for (or don't expect anytime soon) a better implementation of D3D scanlines" ?

TCD · 02 December 2009, 11:58

D3D scanlines work as expected here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoX1911

Direct3D point32bit Scanlines/50%/50%

50%/50% stands for transparency and level right? If you set level to 0 you get black scanlines.

NoX1911 · 02 December 2009, 21:38

Correction:
1.6.1.0 final does work properly. Probably just needed a proper 'restart' or i accidentally started the wrong exe. Beginning with winuae_1620b1.zip it doesn't work anymore (here).

Toni Wilen · 03 December 2009, 17:26

32-bit D3D scanlines are confirmed broken. 16-bit works. More details in OP would have helped as usual

Toni Wilen · 03 December 2009, 20:30

Does http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip fix the problem?

NoX1911 · 04 December 2009, 02:11

Yep, scanlines working again.

NewDeli · 06 December 2009, 11:34

I get a rather different picture :
Using the latest beta, D3D scanlines would only appear passed a threeshold of 8 in transparency level.

In other words, if I don't set the transparency level above 8, there would be no scanlines onscreen, even with the latter set @ 100.
I use the BiLinear D3D filter, no scaling, keep aspect ration ticked.

02 December 2009, 02:56	#4
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Thanks, but i'm not using hardcoded scanlines for recording and i strongly discourage anyone to do so. There are realtime postprocessors like ffdshow that can do the job individually in realtime during playback much better. It'd also break acceptable compression ratios. @Toni Wilen: I've tested on Windowed/D3D now and there's the same behavior. 'Scanline transparency' is somewhat dead. I can move the slider but nothing changes. It doesn't happen on your system? The 'scanline level' slider is kinda strange. From 1-30 it looks subtractive (darker), going further its additive (brighter). Screenshot shows '30'. Can someone else test that behavior (D3D/Scanlines) as well please? Last edited by NoX1911; 02 December 2009 at 03:10.

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01 December 2009, 10:54	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	Remove all unnecessary variables first (vsync, I said I can't test 100Hz modes, fullscreen etc.. only basic windowed d3d) D3D fullscreen + Windows GUI elements = slow display for some reason.

01 December 2009, 23:42	#3
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	Am I wrong assuming you're using those settings to record WinUAE output ? If that's the case, and don't mind scan lines appearing in the final project -not during playback, you could check out Sapphire (from GenArts), which is a pretty powerful plugin suite for After Effects. It bears many filters among which custom (pitch black, "Matrix" green, grainy...) scan lines, that can easily be incorporated in a composition. Or there is this elegant "manual" deinterlace method, using a simple horizontal lines pattern created in Photoshop : http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial/deinterlace_in_ae Note that the videos that should be imported for processsing into After Effects are supposed to be TSCC raw, not previously encoded.

02 December 2009, 03:08	#5
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	If you allow me, I didn't test it with the latest beta, but yeah I think the display is similar to the one on the right picture when I tried to trigger them. I think PAL options from the drop-down box make it a bit more versatile filter, if you don't absolutely need to stick with D3D's. For the delay in showing up the GUI, may be you could give a try to 50Hz AutoVsync.

02 December 2009, 04:06	#6
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Thank you. So hopefully isn't an individual problem on my side. Same effect on 1.6.1.0 here as well. That's why i didn't post it in beta thread. On a side note (if additional post-effects are wanted) MAME has different aperture grille and shadow mask simulation patterns. Small 4x8 up to 24x12 pixel patterns (with alphachannel) that are multiplied to the picture. Maybe easy to implement one day.

02 December 2009, 08:26	#7
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	I thought this was problem about D3D SCANLINES. Deleauvive, try to stay on topic when answering..

02 December 2009, 11:42	#8
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	You mean you don't want NoX to also ask whether it's normal or not that PAL scanlines are not Alpha-blended ? (it seems dekarAF was happy with the PAL filter after having had some issues with the D3D filter). I use a funnel technique when replying, it just takes or or two more "rounds" to get to the point (the less the better of course), but it may give us a chance to collect a bit more of information (and from NoX, it can never hurt) about the proceedings. I mean to ask : Of what you could have been a reply such as "yes, it's normal" or "Wait for (or don't expect anytime soon) a better implementation of D3D scanlines" ?

02 December 2009, 21:38	#10
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Correction: 1.6.1.0 final does work properly. Probably just needed a proper 'restart' or i accidentally started the wrong exe. Beginning with winuae_1620b1.zip it doesn't work anymore (here).

03 December 2009, 17:26	#11
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	32-bit D3D scanlines are confirmed broken. 16-bit works. More details in OP would have helped as usual

03 December 2009, 20:30	#12
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	Does http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip fix the problem?

04 December 2009, 02:11	#13
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Yep, scanlines working again.

06 December 2009, 11:34	#14
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	I get a rather different picture : Using the latest beta, D3D scanlines would only appear passed a threeshold of 8 in transparency level. In other words, if I don't set the transparency level above 8, there would be no scanlines onscreen, even with the latter set @ 100. I use the BiLinear D3D filter, no scaling, keep aspect ration ticked.

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