PiStorm kills Vampire? - Page 2

Samurai_Crow · 17 August 2021, 18:24

Who wants to sit around and remember? The patents are expired and anybody can make an Amiga compatible now.

grond · 17 August 2021, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I find it fascinating that so much effort is being put in to make Amiga surf the net, or play MP3s...when these things are better done by a modern device. Forcing it to do these things is not what we remember it for.

Well, those are the things I wish my Amiga could have done when the Amiga still was my main computer. There is some appeal in seeing what might have happened. I started browsing the net using Mosaic. The various Amiga web browsers aren't any worse than that.

Dynamic_Computi · 17 August 2021, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I'm been looking more and more into the PiStorm, and it seems to me that this is the product that will easily take away 80-90% of Vampire potential customers.

Why would you get the Vampire over PiStorm?

Is there a killer app on the Vampire over PiStorm?

Not crapying on Vampire - it has done a lot for Amiga. However, there is no choice but to say PiStorm puts huge pressure on Vampire from the bottom due to cost and features.

Nope. Not even in the same league, really. The RTG of the PiStorm is nice, but not as compatible as the Vampire. Speed is no comparison at all. PiStorm does a reasonable job of emualting a 68020 or 30 at about 45 Mhz or so - but the problem is that those specs fluctuate wildly depending on what the Pi is doing at the time.
CHIP RAM access is the real killer. It is just slow compared to even a stock Amiga 500 with no expansions. That means some games run like garbage.

Dynamic_Computi · 17 August 2021, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

Who wants to sit around and remember? The patents are expired and anybody can make an Amiga compatible now.

No they are not. Where did you get that idea?

Anubis · 17 August 2021, 18:51

n00b has no idea how to kill vampire?!

On serious side, projects like this (pi storm) are what might get me back to use real hardware again vs. emulation / FPGA. Vamprie might be great but cost is just something I can't justify.

Samurai_Crow · 17 August 2021, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynamic_Computi

No they are not. Where did you get that idea?

According to US law a patent cannot be extended beyond 20 years and is initially at 10 years. Commodore frittered away its wealth and couldn't even afford to renew some of its patents in 1994 so even the ones that were filed later have expired. What hasn't expired are the copyrights and trademarks. So install AROS and use FPGAs and you're in the clear in the USA.

Anubis · 17 August 2021, 19:18

LOL, I had no idea that patent is only 20 years. Was thinking it is the same as copyright / trademark.

Quote:

A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent.

https://www.stopfakes.gov/article?id...20the%20patent.

Every day I learn something new. Thanks!

manossg · 17 August 2021, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I guess one could take a Honda Civid and turn it into a 4x4 Jeep like thing with NOS and other hotrod things. Is that what the Amiga was intended to do?

Maybe the original Amigas could not deliver these things, because they were not the tool intended to deliver it?

I find it fascinating that so much effort is being put in to make Amiga surf the net, or play MP3s...when these things are better done by a modern device. Forcing it to do these things is not what we remember it for.

What is the Amiga intended to do? I would think that amigans would be hard-pressed to reach a consensus.

Sure, Amiga wasn't originally intended to play mp3s, but I get a good (guilty?) amount of pleasure at listening to mp3s (or doing other things the Amiga was or wasn't "intended to do") in my Vamp, without the system breaking a sweat.

eXeler0 · 17 August 2021, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I guess one could take a Honda Civid and turn it into a 4x4 Jeep like thing with NOS and other hotrod things. Is that what the Amiga was intended to do?

Maybe the original Amigas could not deliver these things, because they were not the tool intended to deliver it?

I find it fascinating that so much effort is being put in to make Amiga surf the net, or play MP3s...when these things are better done by a modern device. Forcing it to do these things is not what we remember it for.

Now that you mentioned web surfing and at the topic of using the Raspberry Pi to extend the capabilities of the Amiga, check out this thread i started from some 5 years ago.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=81166

Havie · 17 August 2021, 20:15

Pi Storm looks like a great idea (but not if you have am AGA machine) but isn't in the same league as a Vampire speed wise (no idea about the RTG). Cost is amazing and I guess it would be an ideal set up for an Whdload machine? I would have thought that the cheaper end of the market should be the ones looking out not the Vampire end. Seems around the same prices a 4/8meg ram upgrade to me.

YouKnowWho · 17 August 2021, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

Who wants to sit around and remember? The patents are expired and anybody can make an Amiga compatible now.

WOW! That's news!

No royalties? No limits?

Havie · 17 August 2021, 20:17

Maybe the mini can have an Amiga logo after all.

Anubis · 17 August 2021, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havie

Pi Storm looks like a great idea (but not if you have am AGA machine) but isn't in the same league as a Vampire speed wise (no idea about the RTG). Cost is amazing and I guess it would be an ideal set up for an Whdload machine? I would have thought that the cheaper end of the market should be the ones looking out not the Vampire end. Seems around the same prices a 4/8meg ram upgrade to me.

They (PiStorm team) mentioned that they have plans for A1200 version.

YouKnowWho · 17 August 2021, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havie

I would have thought that the cheaper end of the market should be the ones looking out not the Vampire end. Seems around the same prices a 4/8meg ram upgrade to me.

It is certainly going to pull from all performance boosting hardware, and I agree, all acceleration, RAM cards...PiStorm has to be in the mix.

I think feature alignment against Vampire is quite significant, so that would be tops. Acceleration/RAM - those users are more "original hardware" more likely and are less likely to look at Vampire/PiStorm/FPGA and more likely to aim for 1260 at top upgrade.

dreadnought · 17 August 2021, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havie

Cost is amazing and I guess it would be an ideal set up for an Whdload machine?

I was thinking about this, what would I do if I was buying an Amiga setup now (I'm interested only in quality WHDload experience, don't care for extra speed, RTG, etc). 2 years ago I went for ACA 500+. Looked at it yesterday out of curiosity, and I think I would go with ACA again after all. PiStorm's cost, when you tally up the extra RPi + WB license comes very near ACA.

And that 30 second boot really put me off too.

I still think it's a great option, just probably not for me.

mschulz · 17 August 2021, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Of course, PiStorm booting for 30 secs while displaying Linux/RPi stuff can also put a damper on the "reality" of this experience, because it's a very tangible thing. But I guess they make less claims to being "real" than the FPGA side (or do they?).

Thirty seconds, you say? Well, this is due to the Linux being booted first. But this 30 seconds lag is not a PiStorm feature, just the firmware.

How about bare metal such as Emu68 on PiStorm?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/55019666

ShK · 17 August 2021, 21:16

Yes it doesn't start quickly, but it takes less than 30 seconds. Here is a cold start:

[ Show youtube player ]

dreadnought · 17 August 2021, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShK

Yes it doesn't start quickly, but it takes less than 30 seconds. Here is a cold start:

Ok, that's not so bad. I took this 30 sec figure from this post: https://www.epsilonsworld.com/2021/0...aos-32-on.html

DDNI · 17 August 2021, 21:45

PiStorm runs faster than 040 A4000, has RTG, WiFi and scsi built in. It is plenty fast enough for me when running my WHDLoad A500. The possibilities of Pi4 or Pi CM support is intriguing. The cost of Vampire has always been a deterrent to me.

nikosidis · 17 August 2021, 22:16

Very soon PiStorm will run Emu68. It got no RTG, Wifi or SCSI for now, but it can come later.
Emu68 will boot in a few sec. Faster than Vampire and will probably run as fast as Vampire on Pi 3.
How compatible it will be remains to be seen. It is probably a long way to go, if ever it will be as compatible as Vampire. It is a JIT emulator

17 August 2021, 21:45	#39
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	PiStorm runs faster than 040 A4000, has RTG, WiFi and scsi built in. It is plenty fast enough for me when running my WHDLoad A500. The possibilities of Pi4 or Pi CM support is intriguing. The cost of Vampire has always been a deterrent to me. Last edited by DDNI; 17 August 2021 at 21:51.

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17 August 2021, 18:24	#21
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	Who wants to sit around and remember? The patents are expired and anybody can make an Amiga compatible now.

17 August 2021, 18:51	#25
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,058	n00b has no idea how to kill vampire?! On serious side, projects like this (pi storm) are what might get me back to use real hardware again vs. emulation / FPGA. Vamprie might be great but cost is just something I can't justify.

17 August 2021, 20:15	#30
Havie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,893	Pi Storm looks like a great idea (but not if you have am AGA machine) but isn't in the same league as a Vampire speed wise (no idea about the RTG). Cost is amazing and I guess it would be an ideal set up for an Whdload machine? I would have thought that the cheaper end of the market should be the ones looking out not the Vampire end. Seems around the same prices a 4/8meg ram upgrade to me.

17 August 2021, 20:17	#32
Havie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,893	Maybe the mini can have an Amiga logo after all.

17 August 2021, 21:16	#37
ShK Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Lahti / Finland Age: 52 Posts: 447	Yes it doesn't start quickly, but it takes less than 30 seconds. Here is a cold start: [ Show youtube player ]

17 August 2021, 22:16	#40
nikosidis Registered User Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: oslo/norway Posts: 1,607	Very soon PiStorm will run Emu68. It got no RTG, Wifi or SCSI for now, but it can come later. Emu68 will boot in a few sec. Faster than Vampire and will probably run as fast as Vampire on Pi 3. How compatible it will be remains to be seen. It is probably a long way to go, if ever it will be as compatible as Vampire. It is a JIT emulator

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