Atari ST Computer Sales and Marketshare: A Comparison

intric8 · 01 October 2016, 17:52

I've always been intrigued by the seemingly parallel path the Atari ST line took alongside the Amiga. The games were always similar, the fanbase migrated from the US to Europe in the late 80s/early 90s, and the price points (and even design) were comparable, and they both ceased (for the most part) near the same time as well. And Jack Tramiel.

But I've never had a good feeling for which scene was bigger overall.

I performed a bit of research to check out the sales and marketshare of our friends on the Atari side. If you've ever been curious, too - thoughts welcome:
https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131

Cheers

Galahad/FLT · 01 October 2016, 22:40

Firstly the price points were never similar. The Atari ST was significantly cheaper during its entire lifespan.

Also they didnt cease at near the same time either, the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992.

In what way was the design similar?

-Acid- · 01 October 2016, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

In what way was the design similar?

Well they were both wedges and errr

intric8 · 02 October 2016, 05:00

@Galahad I'm not really comparing the video editing bays of the 3000/4000s here. Not really the same focus from a pricing perspective when I'm making a generalized comparison. But those models also weren't very popular with the general populations.

The Atari's main selling point in much of their advertising was their cheaper price point. Meanwhile the "lower end" Amiga 500 launched in the US for US$595.95, as did the 1200. That was essentially the exact same price as the Atari 520ST. (The 1040 was more, obviously.)

And yes, if you look at them objectively, the case designs of the "wedge" computers aren't that vastly different. The Atari 1040 ST and Amiga 1200, from the outside were very similar looking, let's be honest.

>the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992.

Yes, and in terms of overall marketshare, the two platforms were done. It just took Commodore longer to fizzle out as they had a bit more cash reserves. The Amiga brand limped on, but only to folks that wouldn't let go, like ourselves, until 1995 (and beyond!). But it was over in the grand scheme of things. Am I making sense?

I appreciate the comments.

dlfrsilver · 02 October 2016, 06:29

the chart shows around 5 millions of Amigas sold and 2,2 millions of Atari computers all ranges sold.

those numbers are for world, not for USA alone. The 17 millions number of C64 sold in this chart done by Reimer is the world wide sales figures.

You confirm ?

intric8 · 03 October 2016, 04:36

@dlfrsilver yes, that is what it looks like: worldwide sales and marketshare, not US-only. It's the whole thing for all platforms involved.

Amigajay · 03 October 2016, 08:31

The most accurate Amiga figures would be on this link, probably from C; Germany for the end of 1993 which put them at 5.3m obv this doesn't take into account 94 sales and the rest of the inventory at the time plus any Escom etc sales, I guess around 5.5-6m would be closer the total.

http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/sales.html

intric8 · 04 October 2016, 07:04

@Amigajay that's a good point - that would indeed inch it up a bit. These figures were originally collected in 2005. I think 1993 and earlier are pretty solid since we have US 10-Q filings to compare against. But after the breakup it gets a little murkier.

Wouldn't affect marketshare at all by then, but would get the final total pretty close to the "real deal".

If only C= and Atari (et al) had kept *electronic* records on, well... something more than a floppy disk in some (yes) filing cabinet before the doors were locked shut and the bulldozers came.

C= almost made it to the internet era. Had they made it that far, we might actually have some records that were saved to a *server* somehwere. That sure would have been handy.

:P

Predseda · 05 October 2016, 09:55

What I can see from the chart is the really dramatical drop of Amiga (and Atari) between 1991 and 1992 to PCs. Is that a coincidence that Windows 3.1 were introduced in April 1992?

Amigajay · 05 October 2016, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predseda

What I can see from the chart is the really dramatical drop of Amiga (and Atari) between 1991 and 1992 to PCs. Is that a coincidence that Windows 3.1 were introduced in April 1992?

That wouldn't have affected Amiga sales bar the desktops, they were different markets and prices massively different.

More likely that was when Commodore were fucking up big time confusing Amiga buyers with the CDTV, A570, A500+ and A600 computers!

khph_re · 05 October 2016, 13:31

Megadrive and SNES were released in this period, a lot of people left Amiga and ST for consoles.

kovacm · 11 October 2016, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Also they didnt cease at near the same time either, the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992.

If you talking about games then yes,
but professional software keep coming to ST well beyond mid 90s!

---
What about serial numbers?
If Atari/Amiga folks had something like Chipmunk for Apple http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html
than we could figureout latest/highest serial numbers or highest number in particular years...
It should not be complicated to make such web site and let people chipmunk serial numbers in it

Here is explanation of Falcon serial numbers: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic...=24769#p228032

Galahad/FLT · 11 October 2016, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovacm

If you talking about games then yes,
but professional software keep coming to ST well beyond mid 90s!

---
What about serial numbers?
If Atari/Amiga folks had something like Chipmunk for Apple http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html
than we could figureout latest/highest serial numbers or highest number in particular years...
It should not be complicated to make such web site and let people chipmunk serial numbers in it

Here is explanation of Falcon serial numbers: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic...=24769#p228032

My point still stands, the kind of software you are talking about would have had very small sales.

kovacm · 11 October 2016, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

My point still stands, the kind of software you are talking about would have had very small sales.

My point is that statement: "the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992" is not true

many software companies continue to develop new and to update old software for ST long after 1992.

but it is true that with Windows 3.x starts (and finished with Windows 95) massive porting of software from Mac, Atari, Amiga and even SGI to IBM PC.
Software like LightWave, Real3D, Cinema 4D, Maya, SoftImage (M$ actually bought SoftImage), ArchiCad, Tenado CAD, PhotoShop, Illustrator, PageStream, QuarkXPress, Calamus, CuBase, Logic, FreeHand, Premier, PhotoLine, PageMaker... all this softwares appear on Windows 3.x or Windows 95

so finally IBM PC could be use for something more than typewriter.

Predseda · 11 October 2016, 15:23

Ha! What I said in #9?

Amigajay · 11 October 2016, 16:00

Not really, business model Amiga's only made up <10% total of all Amiga's sold, the gaming bundles were always Commodore's biggest sellers, there is no one else to blame expect Commodore, if the AGA/AA machines were good enough they would have sold regardless of any competition, they weren't, Commodore screwed up, game over.

idrougge · 12 October 2016, 01:31

You only need to look at the Falcon's absolutely abysmal sales to conclude that the ST was commercially dead after 1992.

dlfrsilver · 12 October 2016, 07:34

The Falcon 030 sold to only 5000 machines for all countries. That's why it's so expensive to buy these days.

Amigajay · 12 October 2016, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

The Falcon 030 sold to only 5000 machines for all countries. That's why it's so expensive to buy these days.

Wow! Has to be up there with the lowest selling computers of all time! Even the Sam Coupe sold 12,000!

dlfrsilver · 12 October 2016, 11:08

very possibly. Atari basically did an awfully job, and never had the money to promote the computer. It sold mostly in the music market niche.

The public was not interested.

01 October 2016, 17:52	#1
intric8 AmigaLover Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 75	Atari ST Computer Sales and Marketshare: A Comparison I've always been intrigued by the seemingly parallel path the Atari ST line took alongside the Amiga. The games were always similar, the fanbase migrated from the US to Europe in the late 80s/early 90s, and the price points (and even design) were comparable, and they both ceased (for the most part) near the same time as well. And Jack Tramiel. But I've never had a good feeling for which scene was bigger overall. I performed a bit of research to check out the sales and marketshare of our friends on the Atari side. If you've ever been curious, too - thoughts welcome: https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131 Cheers

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01 October 2016, 22:40	#2
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Firstly the price points were never similar. The Atari ST was significantly cheaper during its entire lifespan. Also they didnt cease at near the same time either, the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992. In what way was the design similar?

02 October 2016, 05:00	#4
intric8 AmigaLover Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 75	@Galahad I'm not really comparing the video editing bays of the 3000/4000s here. Not really the same focus from a pricing perspective when I'm making a generalized comparison. But those models also weren't very popular with the general populations. The Atari's main selling point in much of their advertising was their cheaper price point. Meanwhile the "lower end" Amiga 500 launched in the US for US$595.95, as did the 1200. That was essentially the exact same price as the Atari 520ST. (The 1040 was more, obviously.) And yes, if you look at them objectively, the case designs of the "wedge" computers aren't that vastly different. The Atari 1040 ST and Amiga 1200, from the outside were very similar looking, let's be honest. >the ST ceased to commercially viable for a lot of software companies by 1992. Yes, and in terms of overall marketshare, the two platforms were done. It just took Commodore longer to fizzle out as they had a bit more cash reserves. The Amiga brand limped on, but only to folks that wouldn't let go, like ourselves, until 1995 (and beyond!). But it was over in the grand scheme of things. Am I making sense? I appreciate the comments.

02 October 2016, 06:29	#5
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	the chart shows around 5 millions of Amigas sold and 2,2 millions of Atari computers all ranges sold. those numbers are for world, not for USA alone. The 17 millions number of C64 sold in this chart done by Reimer is the world wide sales figures. You confirm ?

03 October 2016, 04:36	#6
intric8 AmigaLover Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 75	@dlfrsilver yes, that is what it looks like: worldwide sales and marketshare, not US-only. It's the whole thing for all platforms involved.

03 October 2016, 08:31	#7
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	The most accurate Amiga figures would be on this link, probably from C; Germany for the end of 1993 which put them at 5.3m obv this doesn't take into account 94 sales and the rest of the inventory at the time plus any Escom etc sales, I guess around 5.5-6m would be closer the total. http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/sales.html

04 October 2016, 07:04	#8
intric8 AmigaLover Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 75	@Amigajay that's a good point - that would indeed inch it up a bit. These figures were originally collected in 2005. I think 1993 and earlier are pretty solid since we have US 10-Q filings to compare against. But after the breakup it gets a little murkier. Wouldn't affect marketshare at all by then, but would get the final total pretty close to the "real deal". If only C= and Atari (et al) had kept electronic records on, well... something more than a floppy disk in some (yes) filing cabinet before the doors were locked shut and the bulldozers came. C= almost made it to the internet era. Had they made it that far, we might actually have some records that were saved to a server somehwere. That sure would have been handy. :P

05 October 2016, 09:55	#9
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,538	What I can see from the chart is the really dramatical drop of Amiga (and Atari) between 1991 and 1992 to PCs. Is that a coincidence that Windows 3.1 were introduced in April 1992?

05 October 2016, 13:31	#11
khph_re Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northampton/UK Posts: 524	Megadrive and SNES were released in this period, a lot of people left Amiga and ST for consoles.

11 October 2016, 15:23	#15
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,538	Ha! What I said in #9?

11 October 2016, 16:00	#16
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	Not really, business model Amiga's only made up <10% total of all Amiga's sold, the gaming bundles were always Commodore's biggest sellers, there is no one else to blame expect Commodore, if the AGA/AA machines were good enough they would have sold regardless of any competition, they weren't, Commodore screwed up, game over.

12 October 2016, 01:31	#17
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	You only need to look at the Falcon's absolutely abysmal sales to conclude that the ST was commercially dead after 1992.

12 October 2016, 07:34	#18
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	The Falcon 030 sold to only 5000 machines for all countries. That's why it's so expensive to buy these days.

12 October 2016, 11:08	#20
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	very possibly. Atari basically did an awfully job, and never had the money to promote the computer. It sold mostly in the music market niche. The public was not interested.

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