Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask - Page 143

zipper · 06 July 2021, 17:37

https://downloadmoreram.com/download.html

https://downloadram.net/download/

NLS · 06 July 2021, 17:39

But I found with Google.

...

...

I indeed found with Google.
In any case, don't bother. It seems to be a running joke.

d4rk3lf · 06 July 2021, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyc

Perhaps if you could provide a link it would give some context?

You need to download more RAM in order to view the link of that size.

crazyc · 06 July 2021, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

You need to download more RAM in order to view the link of that size.

Actually my RAM is fine but my 030 isn't up to it so I am pulling down an 060 from aminet before trying again

Mrs Beanbag · 07 July 2021, 16:21

oo am currently trying to find out how to get my hands on one of those TF1260 accelerator cards! i can provide my own 060..

Daedalus · 07 July 2021, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

oo am currently trying to find out how to get my hands on one of those TF1260 accelerator cards! i can provide my own 060..

Supaduper on Exxoshost (and possible EAB as well) is your man for TF1260 builds in the UK.

slaapliedje · 08 July 2021, 02:14

Less embarrassing for me, and maybe more for the Amiga in general...

Why was there such a great start off point for some standardized directory structures, but it seems the only one that is properly used is Libs.

For example; the Installer seems to be copied (when it is copied) to Sys:Utilities. But when you download most things from Aminet, they expect it to be in C:

Another example; MUI. It seems to be a fairly standard requirement, as so many applications used it as their framework. Yet the install of it is kind of anywhere you want (I have changed where I like it, used to put the main MUI folder in Libs, but I think now maybe Classes or Expansion makes more sense... and it doesn't copy the MUI prefs into Prefs.

Daedalus · 08 July 2021, 10:32

Software expecting the Installer to be in C: is just a mistake on the developer's part. MUI can be installed anywhere because it's set up using assigns (including adding to the LIBS: assign). That's a decision of the MUI developers and works just fine wherever it is since software just uses the assigns to access it and never an absolute path.

MUI doesn't actually suggest installing in SYS:Libs, and given that it's an entirely separate framework from the standard gadgets, it makes sense to keep it separate from Libs. Classes is for BOOPSI classes, which isn't a great fit either, and Expansion has a specific function for hardware drivers for AutoConfig boards that do not have their driver in ROM and isn't intended for software expansions as such.

What's wrong with SYS:MUI? IIRC that's the default suggestion, and it's where it is installed in OS4 (which comes with MUI).

Anyway, the directory structure is indeed generally pretty good, but it's also flexible, which is a credit to the Amiga OS design. Most of the directories seem to be pretty consistent in my experience - I don't put anything in the system directories unless they're actually meant to go there, and so they generally stay pretty clean.

slaapliedje · 08 July 2021, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Software expecting the Installer to be in C: is just a mistake on the developer's part. MUI can be installed anywhere because it's set up using assigns (including adding to the LIBS: assign). That's a decision of the MUI developers and works just fine wherever it is since software just uses the assigns to access it and never an absolute path.

MUI doesn't actually suggest installing in SYS:Libs, and given that it's an entirely separate framework from the standard gadgets, it makes sense to keep it separate from Libs. Classes is for BOOPSI classes, which isn't a great fit either, and Expansion has a specific function for hardware drivers for AutoConfig boards that do not have their driver in ROM and isn't intended for software expansions as such.

What's wrong with SYS:MUI? IIRC that's the default suggestion, and it's where it is installed in OS4 (which comes with MUI).

Anyway, the directory structure is indeed generally pretty good, but it's also flexible, which is a credit to the Amiga OS design. Most of the directories seem to be pretty consistent in my experience - I don't put anything in the system directories unless they're actually meant to go there, and so they generally stay pretty clean.

Seems to me, for some reason, it tried to default to Work:MUI. I think many installers defaulted to using C:Installer in their path during a specific timeframe when I would guess that is where it was put? I kind of wonder if I should have a play with Amiga Forever and see where (if any) the various versions of workbench copy Installer to. Pretty sure it wasn't copied with 3.9 or 3.1.x either, and ends up being the first thing I copy.

Older ones are broken with larger partition sizes. So especially on those I need to point to the newer one. AsimCDFS being one of them.

Edit: I knew that Expansion was meant for drivers somehow, but wasn't aware autoconfig will read out of there. Picasso96 for example is something that wants to clutter up SYS:, and kind of almost seems appropriate to place there, but it is just the extra stuff, and not even the libs / drivers. I don't think I have ever seen anything install in Expansions, and always thought of it as the cool idea, that was never used (like the 8mb chip ram jumper on the A4000!)

zipper · 08 July 2021, 13:35

The early Prometheus board driver did use Expansion afair - but they changed it later.

Daedalus · 08 July 2021, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaapliedje

Seems to me, for some reason, it tried to default to Work:MUI. I think many installers defaulted to using C:Installer in their path during a specific timeframe when I would guess that is where it was put? I kind of wonder if I should have a play with Amiga Forever and see where (if any) the various versions of workbench copy Installer to. Pretty sure it wasn't copied with 3.9 or 3.1.x either, and ends up being the first thing I copy.

Prior to 3.5, it wasn't copied anywhere. The idea was that it was distributed with the software to be installed, so the script always matched the version of installer present. I guess some people added it to C: themselves and referenced it there, and others copied them. But even then, including the full path doesn't make sense, when using "Installer" instead of "C:Installer" would work just fine, and would still work when used on a machine with the Installer in Utilities.

3.5, 3.9 and 4.1 all copy it to SYS:Utilities. 3.1.4 and 3.2 copy it to SYS:System.

Quote:

Older ones are broken with larger partition sizes. So especially on those I need to point to the newer one. AsimCDFS being one of them.

Indeed, and with different common locations, there's a danger of having different versions installed on the same machine.

Edit: I knew that Expansion was meant for drivers somehow, but wasn't aware autoconfig will read out of there. Picasso96 for example is something that wants to clutter up SYS:, and kind of almost seems appropriate to place there, but it is just the extra stuff, and not even the libs / drivers. I don't think I have ever seen anything install in Expansions, and always thought of it as the cool idea, that was never used (like the 8mb chip ram jumper on the A4000!)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Picasso96 has some system files that get installed, but the rest is documentation etc. and can go anywhere. Expansion is used by the BindDrivers command - it checks to see if any drivers in Expansion match any installed Autoconfig boards that need a driver, and loads it if so. Most boards though either have the driver in a ROM on the card itself (so they can autoboot), or don't need drivers loaded automatically, instead using the DEVS: route for providing a driver when required. So while it works, it's not often used.

Mrs Beanbag · 10 July 2021, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Supaduper on Exxoshost (and possible EAB as well) is your man for TF1260 builds in the UK.

Great! They are indeed on EAB.. now i need to find myself a new case.. are they still making those new cases? i remember they were doing a kickstarter for it a few years back, i found their website but couldn't work out how to actually buy any.. well i have money now

Jope · 11 July 2021, 07:38

The cases are sometimes available via the remaining amiga shops.

chip · 11 July 2021, 08:01

Original Amiga sound is mono or stereo ?

Jope · 11 July 2021, 08:44

Stereo, with two channels going to the left output and two going to the right.

chip · 11 July 2021, 08:52

Thanks ...... i finally made this embarrassing question

NLS · 12 July 2021, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip

Thanks ...... i finally made this embarrassing question

Not questioning your... question.
I just need more data, because it made me curious..

I mean most (all?) Amiga have two ports clearly labeled "Audio L" and "Audio R" (or something like that).
Most software utilizing Amiga audio (games and especially demos), usually made sure to demonstrate that Amiga is stereo (playing different things in left and right).
Let alone Google does answer the question.

So, just curious, you didn't have an Amiga?
Or don't have one any more and you were too young back then or something?
Just curious, about how someone arrives to this question.
(don't get me wrong)

chip · 12 July 2021, 16:07

No problem

I knew this was a stupid question, but this thread is here for a reason

I owned real Amiga in the past, but at that time i was not curious about Amiga sound aspects like i am nowadays

grond · 12 July 2021, 16:11

I believe my CRT monitor back in the day had inputs for both L/R channels but only one speaker. This could have made one wonder whether the Amiga could really do stereo.

Mrs Beanbag · 12 July 2021, 20:03

monitor speaker is really not the best way to listen to.. anything really..

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06 July 2021, 17:37	#2841
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	https://downloadmoreram.com/download.html https://downloadram.net/download/

06 July 2021, 17:39	#2842
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 757	But I found with Google. ... ... I indeed found with Google. In any case, don't bother. It seems to be a running joke.

07 July 2021, 16:21	#2845
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	oo am currently trying to find out how to get my hands on one of those TF1260 accelerator cards! i can provide my own 060..

08 July 2021, 02:14	#2847
slaapliedje Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 516	Less embarrassing for me, and maybe more for the Amiga in general... Why was there such a great start off point for some standardized directory structures, but it seems the only one that is properly used is Libs. For example; the Installer seems to be copied (when it is copied) to Sys:Utilities. But when you download most things from Aminet, they expect it to be in C: Another example; MUI. It seems to be a fairly standard requirement, as so many applications used it as their framework. Yet the install of it is kind of anywhere you want (I have changed where I like it, used to put the main MUI folder in Libs, but I think now maybe Classes or Expansion makes more sense... and it doesn't copy the MUI prefs into Prefs.

08 July 2021, 10:32	#2848
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Software expecting the Installer to be in C: is just a mistake on the developer's part. MUI can be installed anywhere because it's set up using assigns (including adding to the LIBS: assign). That's a decision of the MUI developers and works just fine wherever it is since software just uses the assigns to access it and never an absolute path. MUI doesn't actually suggest installing in SYS:Libs, and given that it's an entirely separate framework from the standard gadgets, it makes sense to keep it separate from Libs. Classes is for BOOPSI classes, which isn't a great fit either, and Expansion has a specific function for hardware drivers for AutoConfig boards that do not have their driver in ROM and isn't intended for software expansions as such. What's wrong with SYS:MUI? IIRC that's the default suggestion, and it's where it is installed in OS4 (which comes with MUI). Anyway, the directory structure is indeed generally pretty good, but it's also flexible, which is a credit to the Amiga OS design. Most of the directories seem to be pretty consistent in my experience - I don't put anything in the system directories unless they're actually meant to go there, and so they generally stay pretty clean.

08 July 2021, 13:35	#2850
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	The early Prometheus board driver did use Expansion afair - but they changed it later.

11 July 2021, 07:38	#2853
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	The cases are sometimes available via the remaining amiga shops.

11 July 2021, 08:01	#2854
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	Original Amiga sound is mono or stereo ?

11 July 2021, 08:44	#2855
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Stereo, with two channels going to the left output and two going to the right.

11 July 2021, 08:52	#2856
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	Thanks ...... i finally made this embarrassing question

12 July 2021, 16:07	#2858
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	No problem I knew this was a stupid question, but this thread is here for a reason I owned real Amiga in the past, but at that time i was not curious about Amiga sound aspects like i am nowadays

12 July 2021, 16:11	#2859
grond Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Germany Posts: 1,918	I believe my CRT monitor back in the day had inputs for both L/R channels but only one speaker. This could have made one wonder whether the Amiga could really do stereo.

12 July 2021, 20:03	#2860
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	monitor speaker is really not the best way to listen to.. anything really..

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