The original ST-01?

Robyn · 04 February 2016, 00:11

Hello, I'd like to ask whether anybody has a rip or perhaps even the real floppy for the ST-01 sample disk? SoundTracker songs and samples fascinate me highly, out of all things Amiga. I'd like to hear the samples as Karsten Obarski released it, or more that he has done obscure to common knowledge.

I have found that DigiHarp, Heaven, RoomBrass, SlapBass and Touch are edited in common rips of ST-01. KorgDoi is missing from the Aminet upload of it also! DigiHarp has echo added onto it, Heaven is shortened, RoomBrass is shortened, SlapBass is an octave higher and Touch is also shortened. Most of these finds that I have found comparing to Aminet's rip are from "Sound Samples 2 (19xx)(-)(PD)", although the longer Touch was ripped from a module. I wish I remembered which one..

If I am talking nonsense about this, please don't hesitate to correct me. I'm no genius with Amiga stuff, I wasn't exactly alive at the time either heh! Thanks all for your time.

ma693541 · 04 February 2016, 01:26

Have you tried this links; Project ST-01: The instruments behind the historic ST-01 sample disk revealed and the ST-01 site referred to there is down, so you have to use this link instead; http://www.st-01.com/ from WayBackMachine.

Robyn · 04 February 2016, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma693541

Have you tried this links; Project ST-01: The instruments behind the historic ST-01 sample disk revealed and the ST-01 site referred to there is down, so you have to use this link instead; http://www.st-01.com/ from WayBackMachine.

Oh yes I remember this. The problem is that there are no actual snapshots of the site when it was active. D:
And I'd just like to make it clear, I'm not interested in the patches involved in ST-01, just the original sample packs that Obarski released.

Predseda · 04 February 2016, 21:01

Isnt this what are you looking for?

http://aminet.net/package/mods/inst/st-01

Amiga1992 · 04 February 2016, 21:04

This is an interesting topic. I hd no idea there were modified versions.

In case Karsten Obarski himself isn't available for easy contact, I guess you could ask the next best man: Pex "Mahoney" Tufvesson, maker of Noisetracker
http://www.livet.se/mahoney/
He might have a copy of the original ST-01 disk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predseda

Isnt this what are you looking for?
http://aminet.net/package/mods/inst/st-01

You need to read with attention. He said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robyn

KorgDoi is missing from the Aminet upload of it also! DigiHarp has echo added onto it, Heaven is shortened, RoomBrass is shortened, SlapBass is an octave higher and Touch is also shortened. Most of these finds that I have found comparing to Aminet's rip are from "Sound Samples 2 (19xx)(-)(PD)", although the longer Touch was ripped from a module. I wish I remembered which one..

Predseda · 04 February 2016, 21:06

Ah, pardon, my mistake.

Seems we also have a thread about this:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=40393

Amiga1992 · 04 February 2016, 21:15

Nope, that thread does not put light on the matter that Robyn is mentioning, that most if not all ST-01 disks we have online are actually modified from the original.

I contacted Pex in hopes he might have a disk.

Robyn, can you trust your source of comparison as it being the original samples? How have you founded your suspicion on these samples being edited? Doesn't any online release of Soundtracker come with the proper ST-01 disk?

Robyn · 05 February 2016, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Nope, that thread does not put light on the matter that Robyn is mentioning, that most if not all ST-01 disks we have online are actually modified from the original.

I contacted Pex in hopes he might have a disk.

Robyn, can you trust your source of comparison as it being the original samples? How have you founded your suspicion on these samples being edited? Doesn't any online release of Soundtracker come with the proper ST-01 disk?

Thank you for contacting Pex!

And well, that's the thing..every copy I have managed to source online is different in some way.. The way I found this was with having two different versions of AXK8. The AMP rip and the original intro have a lower SlapBass than other rips, so I got pretty confused and had to look further into this. I hope we can hear back from Mahoney or anyone else who knows.

Asle · 06 February 2016, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robyn

Thank you for contacting Pex!

And well, that's the thing..every copy I have managed to source online is different in some way.. The way I found this was with having two different versions of AXK8. The AMP rip and the original intro have a lower SlapBass than other rips, so I got pretty confused and had to look further into this. I hope we can hear back from Mahoney or anyone else who knows.

Just to be clear, all rips on AMP are done with the samples featured in the prods they come from. Not (never) with ST-XX disks, ever. And I happen to have an ST-01 disk handy. Report if there's a pb.

Sylvain

Robyn · 07 February 2016, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asle

Just to be clear, all rips on AMP are done with the samples featured in the prods they come from. Not (never) with ST-XX disks, ever. And I happen to have an ST-01 disk handy. Report if there's a pb.

Sylvain

Oh okay, thank you for the explanation.
Thanks a lot for your ST-01 rip! It seemed to be pretty clean (even though it had extra samples I never heard before?), except the problem is that Touch is also faded out. I've noticed the unedited Touch is actually kind of common while digging for songs using it.
I've attached a few, just to give some kind of evidence that it isn't a different recording.

Leffmann · 08 February 2016, 00:06

Look at the dates and time-stamps of the files, they could give some clues to whether a sample is original, a modification, or if it doesn't belong at all.

scuzz · 08 February 2016, 01:37

I do come across a lot of the ST series of disks and I just checked and my ST-01 is completely different to the one from Aminet. But then I have other versions. When I get a moment I'll check through the disk boxes and see what other copies I have. They do tend to get modified a lot though.

scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com...ga_inframe.htm

Amiga1992 · 08 February 2016, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leffmann

Look at the dates and time-stamps of the files, they could give some clues to whether a sample is original, a modification, or if it doesn't belong at all.

Most people back then did not have battery backed up clocks and cared not about the date the system had, so this wouldn't be a very precise indication, unfortunately.

Robyn · 08 February 2016, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuzz

I do come across a lot of the ST series of disks and I just checked and my ST-01 is completely different to the one from Aminet. But then I have other versions. When I get a moment I'll check through the disk boxes and see what other copies I have. They do tend to get modified a lot though.

scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com...ga_inframe.htm

Thanks a lot.

Fingers crossed there's some sample disks of interest in there. Even if it isn't the original, it'd be great to catalog them for where they came from, to give it some sense.
Also yes that's a big problem, the dates of files..they are very rarely accurate. To be honest, even I don't bother to change the time on my A1200, it's still 1992 apparently haha!

scuzz · 08 February 2016, 23:40

Shot in the dark here but do you have a copy of The DEMO Collection for the Amiga CDTV by Almathera Systems Ltd . On the disk is a section for the ProTracker 2.1A and has disks ST-01 through to ST-08. All of the instruments are dated 16th September 1992. ST-01 is a unique set and ST-02 starts at A and finishes with ST-08 at Z. All the instrument variations you listed are the same as on that list.

I have trawled through my own collection and found a set of instruments that correspond to your list dated 5th Jan 1988 and 6th May 1988. The sets are on a disk called instruments sadly and not ST-01. My copies of ST-01 are all over the place. Music makers just hacked the disks around. My set however has the reference .snd at the end of each instrument reference. Also in capitals and DOS length so from a PC disk.

I still have to go through another six inch deep CD set here and a similar height set of ProTracker and Samples disks. You never know. Tricky one this. Interesting I have to say. I have managed to expand my Samples drawer somewhat today on the 4000.

The biggest struggle I have is with PD House listings. I get a CD like the one from VirusFreePD and they have 1200 demos on the CD from 0001 to 1200 all in dms and with no listing. So I have to write them to floppy and cus they are generally un-initialised I play them on the A500 to see whats what. The GVP side car has a heavy handed virus checker so the disks and checker often do bootblock battle before I can see the disks contents. There are numerous ST-xx disks but very often you get ProTracker projects and music on the disk which utilise a selection of instruments. So they are all different.

I'm no expert by the way, so sorry if Im telling you what you already knew.

I'll keep looking. I can put what ever anyone needs on the website. No problem.

Amiga1992 · 09 February 2016, 00:07

Well we;re looking for the disk that came with Soundtracker, so a PT2.x disk might already be tampered with.

Soundtracker is from 1987 or 1989, can't remember.
And let's not forget that file dates usually make no sense in Amiga because nobody had RTCs.

Leffmann · 09 February 2016, 11:08

The idea with the file dates is that because AmigaDOS retains a system date on every physical volume, whether you have a battery-backed clock or not, one can look at the files to maybe get an idea as to what files were put there using one system, and what files were put there using another.

You can never rely on it to tell you the true date and age of a file, and nobody suggested that, but when you have already resorted to looking for any clues you can find...

scuzz · 09 February 2016, 12:31

The best chance for finding this disk is from an actual Amiga source and not from trawling the web. I have a very deep well here and I have yet to even to fire up my Checkmates or 1000s. There are also links through some of the other platforms. So building a steady picture from what we know to where we want to get is the only way to do this. I believe the route may be through ProTracker and the demo creator disks and the like. At some point certain fragments of the original will emerge through the debris. It is the nature of the process of retracing a path. An all too common challenge when using computers. The joy I have is that I have the disks, discs, computers for reference plus a rich source of contacts..... so I'll keep going.

My last post fixed a point in time and my current level of understanding.

The issue of the dates may give a false positive but as with many things you record and register and then compare. When a pattern starts to develop then you can start making a reasoned judgement.

PS I don't live in the world of internet research. I haven't got a digital amiga world and certainly don't live in one. I use the actual kit and have access to the original data on disk. It is the first point of salvaging the past for those that want to benefit in their internet fantasy worlds. I do this out of love for the Amiga.....

Happy days.

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com...ga_inframe.htm

Amiga1992 · 09 February 2016, 16:19

I have contacted people in the Amiga scene as best as I could to try to source the disk, of course I am trying to avoid junk downloaded from the web.

Leffman, good point about the date. I suppose an older version of the system will give out an older date. Is the default date locked to the release date of the Kickstart version running in the system?

FromWithin · 09 February 2016, 16:26

On a related note:

https://soundcloud.com/mike-clarke/a...-of-persuasion

I wrote this for the 30th Amiga anniversary in Peterborough using only ST-01 samples.

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04 February 2016, 01:26	#2
ma693541 Computer Wizard Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ramberg/Norway Posts: 928	Have you tried this links; Project ST-01: The instruments behind the historic ST-01 sample disk revealed and the ST-01 site referred to there is down, so you have to use this link instead; http://www.st-01.com/ from WayBackMachine.

04 February 2016, 21:01	#4
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,539	Isnt this what are you looking for? http://aminet.net/package/mods/inst/st-01

04 February 2016, 21:06	#6
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,539	Ah, pardon, my mistake. Seems we also have a thread about this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=40393

04 February 2016, 21:15	#7
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Nope, that thread does not put light on the matter that Robyn is mentioning, that most if not all ST-01 disks we have online are actually modified from the original. I contacted Pex in hopes he might have a disk. Robyn, can you trust your source of comparison as it being the original samples? How have you founded your suspicion on these samples being edited? Doesn't any online release of Soundtracker come with the proper ST-01 disk?

08 February 2016, 00:06	#11
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	Look at the dates and time-stamps of the files, they could give some clues to whether a sample is original, a modification, or if it doesn't belong at all.

08 February 2016, 01:37	#12
scuzz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Forest Posts: 196	I do come across a lot of the ST series of disks and I just checked and my ST-01 is completely different to the one from Aminet. But then I have other versions. When I get a moment I'll check through the disk boxes and see what other copies I have. They do tend to get modified a lot though. scuzz http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com...ga_inframe.htm

08 February 2016, 23:40	#15
scuzz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Forest Posts: 196	Shot in the dark here but do you have a copy of The DEMO Collection for the Amiga CDTV by Almathera Systems Ltd . On the disk is a section for the ProTracker 2.1A and has disks ST-01 through to ST-08. All of the instruments are dated 16th September 1992. ST-01 is a unique set and ST-02 starts at A and finishes with ST-08 at Z. All the instrument variations you listed are the same as on that list. I have trawled through my own collection and found a set of instruments that correspond to your list dated 5th Jan 1988 and 6th May 1988. The sets are on a disk called instruments sadly and not ST-01. My copies of ST-01 are all over the place. Music makers just hacked the disks around. My set however has the reference .snd at the end of each instrument reference. Also in capitals and DOS length so from a PC disk. I still have to go through another six inch deep CD set here and a similar height set of ProTracker and Samples disks. You never know. Tricky one this. Interesting I have to say. I have managed to expand my Samples drawer somewhat today on the 4000. The biggest struggle I have is with PD House listings. I get a CD like the one from VirusFreePD and they have 1200 demos on the CD from 0001 to 1200 all in dms and with no listing. So I have to write them to floppy and cus they are generally un-initialised I play them on the A500 to see whats what. The GVP side car has a heavy handed virus checker so the disks and checker often do bootblock battle before I can see the disks contents. There are numerous ST-xx disks but very often you get ProTracker projects and music on the disk which utilise a selection of instruments. So they are all different. I'm no expert by the way, so sorry if Im telling you what you already knew. I'll keep looking. I can put what ever anyone needs on the website. No problem.

09 February 2016, 00:07	#16
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Well we;re looking for the disk that came with Soundtracker, so a PT2.x disk might already be tampered with. Soundtracker is from 1987 or 1989, can't remember. And let's not forget that file dates usually make no sense in Amiga because nobody had RTCs.

09 February 2016, 11:08	#17
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	The idea with the file dates is that because AmigaDOS retains a system date on every physical volume, whether you have a battery-backed clock or not, one can look at the files to maybe get an idea as to what files were put there using one system, and what files were put there using another. You can never rely on it to tell you the true date and age of a file, and nobody suggested that, but when you have already resorted to looking for any clues you can find...

09 February 2016, 12:31	#18
scuzz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Forest Posts: 196	The best chance for finding this disk is from an actual Amiga source and not from trawling the web. I have a very deep well here and I have yet to even to fire up my Checkmates or 1000s. There are also links through some of the other platforms. So building a steady picture from what we know to where we want to get is the only way to do this. I believe the route may be through ProTracker and the demo creator disks and the like. At some point certain fragments of the original will emerge through the debris. It is the nature of the process of retracing a path. An all too common challenge when using computers. The joy I have is that I have the disks, discs, computers for reference plus a rich source of contacts..... so I'll keep going. My last post fixed a point in time and my current level of understanding. The issue of the dates may give a false positive but as with many things you record and register and then compare. When a pattern starts to develop then you can start making a reasoned judgement. PS I don't live in the world of internet research. I haven't got a digital amiga world and certainly don't live in one. I use the actual kit and have access to the original data on disk. It is the first point of salvaging the past for those that want to benefit in their internet fantasy worlds. I do this out of love for the Amiga..... Happy days. http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com...ga_inframe.htm

09 February 2016, 16:19	#19
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I have contacted people in the Amiga scene as best as I could to try to source the disk, of course I am trying to avoid junk downloaded from the web. Leffman, good point about the date. I suppose an older version of the system will give out an older date. Is the default date locked to the release date of the Kickstart version running in the system?

09 February 2016, 16:26	#20
FromWithin Music lord Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Liverpool, UK Age: 50 Posts: 630	On a related note: https://soundcloud.com/mike-clarke/a...-of-persuasion I wrote this for the 30th Amiga anniversary in Peterborough using only ST-01 samples.

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