Indivision OCS/ECS under development - Page 3

protek · 15 April 2009, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by adolescent

I haven't seen photos yet. But, I read that to use on the A603 you need to lose the internal floppy. Hopefully someone can find a hack/fix for this.

Not exactly true. In A.org, Jens said that if you want to use Indivision ECS, you have to lose the floppy. Fitting the A603 requires only modding of the RF shield.

kipper2k · 15 April 2009, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I'm only looking forward to the CHAMELEON CARTRIDGE for the C64...
That shit is NEXT LEVEL!

did you see the suggested price for the chameleon... Ouch!

http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm

protek · 15 April 2009, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k

did you see the suggested price for the chameleon... Ouch!

http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm

Considering that a SuperCPU will probably set you back at least as much, it is not that surprising.

alexh · 15 April 2009, 14:51

Why is he bothering to make them? He'll sell less than 100!

gklinger · 15 April 2009, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Why is he bothering to make them? He'll sell less than 100!

I'm somewhat well connected in the 64 community and I know of quite a few people that are eager to buy, even at that price (myself included).

alexh · 15 April 2009, 16:58

You're all mad. And single.

Jope · 16 April 2009, 08:20

Perhaps the NTSC world is waiting for the Chameleon more eagerly than the PAL scene? Everyone already has the 1541U.

gklinger · 16 April 2009, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Perhaps the NTSC world is waiting for the Chameleon more eagerly than the PAL scene?

I don't think so. I'd say there's less awareness of its existence over here. From what I've gathered, IC sold a lot more MMC64s and MMC Replays to PAL users and I suspect the same will be true of the Chameleon.

Quote:

Everyone already has the 1541U.

Indeed we do and that will definitely have an effect on sales. Were there no 1541U, IC could probably sell twice as many Chameleons. Jens has made a few posts whinging about how GZ doesn't have to deal with the same regulatory and business issues as he does and I get the feeling that his judgement is a little clouded. I think he's partly motivated by a desire to beat the 1541U. All I can say is, good luck with that.

kipper2k · 16 April 2009, 15:02

From what i read on the Chameleon it has a VGA output so i think personally it beats the 1541U. Dependant on the C64 age, condition etc i find the C64 composite or chroma output still blurry. If the Chameleon offers the same functions AND VGA output then they have my vote... (And probably my money

alexh · 16 April 2009, 15:07

AFAIK the RGB data didn't go to the cartridge port on C64. For it to have VGA output it means the Chameleon has to have a re-created VIC inside the FPGA rather than using the original VIC.

Some code from the C-One work no doubt?

frost242 · 16 April 2009, 18:15

This Chameleon seems to reproduce everything in a C=64 expect the SID, doesn't it ?

gklinger · 16 April 2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper2k

Dependant on the C64 age, condition etc i find the C64 composite or chroma output still blurry.

Have you considered using the S-video that the 64 natively produces? The output from my 64 is razor sharp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

AFAIK the RGB data didn't go to the cartridge port on C64.

There's no RGB period but your basic point is accurate in that there's no video on the expansion port. The Chameleon is simulating the VIC-II.

Quote:

Some code from the C-One work no doubt?

Bingo. In fact, the Chameleon is actually an off-shoot of a project for the C-One. This page might help clarify things.

cv643d · 17 April 2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

You're all mad. And single.

So are you, mentioning Amigas as girlfriends do not count, only real girls (as in living humans).

Ratte · 22 April 2009, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I found the post, it was in amiga.org news item.

There are sync signals present on the Lisa, not as separate signals but in RGA bus (those strobe registers, don't remember the names), they are basically equivalent to hsync and vsync. AFAIK, AGA version does "sample" digital RGB outputs.

Conspiracy theory: they are testing Clone-A Denise emulation in this version, this way they get feedback and fixes without possibly damaging clone-a's reputation if some things don't work 100% correctly (demos can make really weird things..)

Seems to be true ... http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=250211
(sorry german - babelfish is your friend)

alexh · 22 April 2009, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens

Correct, inside the FPGA is an almost complete Denise. Only collision detection and mouse stuff are not in it. Theoretically we could send audio through the analogue outputs instead of video also

I wonder what the "collision detection" part of the Denise does exactly and how come they can do without it?

It must happen "behind the scenes" and not affect what is drawn on screen directly. Perhaps trigger the CPU/DMA/COPPER into an action via an interrupt or polled bit?

Toni Wilen · 22 April 2009, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I wonder what the "collision detection" part of the Denise does exactly and how come they can do without it?

It must happen "behind the scenes" and not affect what is drawn on screen directly. Perhaps trigger the CPU/DMA/COPPER into an action via an interrupt or polled bit?

Collision is single read-only register in Denise. (no interrupts or any side-effects)

EDIT: oops, forgot about collision config register that is write-only, anyway it does not affect display either.

alexh · 22 April 2009, 19:21

Interesting, explains why the collision detection logic is not required. The denise registers in FPGA of the "Indivision OCS/ECS" are WRITE only.

The CPU reads the collision detection from the motherboard denise.

Toni Wilen · 22 April 2009, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Interesting, explains why the collision detection logic is not required. The denise registers in FPGA of the "Indivision OCS/ECS" are WRITE only.

The CPU reads the collision detection from the motherboard denise.

joystick/mouse counters are more interesting, there is both read-only and write-only register (JOYxDAT and JOYTEST)

JOYTEST is not normally used but as usual, there are few programs.

alexh · 22 April 2009, 19:27

But those registers do not directly affect what the Denise draws?

Toni Wilen · 22 April 2009, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

But those registers do not directly affect what the Denise draws?

Oops, I remember you said old Denise would be read-only. Never mind

22 April 2009, 19:21	#57
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Interesting, explains why the collision detection logic is not required. The denise registers in FPGA of the "Indivision OCS/ECS" are WRITE only. The CPU reads the collision detection from the motherboard denise. Last edited by alexh; 22 April 2009 at 19:27.

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15 April 2009, 14:51	#44
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Why is he bothering to make them? He'll sell less than 100!

15 April 2009, 16:58	#46
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	You're all mad. And single.

16 April 2009, 08:20	#47
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Perhaps the NTSC world is waiting for the Chameleon more eagerly than the PAL scene? Everyone already has the 1541U.

16 April 2009, 15:02	#49
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	From what i read on the Chameleon it has a VGA output so i think personally it beats the 1541U. Dependant on the C64 age, condition etc i find the C64 composite or chroma output still blurry. If the Chameleon offers the same functions AND VGA output then they have my vote... (And probably my money

16 April 2009, 15:07	#50
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	AFAIK the RGB data didn't go to the cartridge port on C64. For it to have VGA output it means the Chameleon has to have a re-created VIC inside the FPGA rather than using the original VIC. Some code from the C-One work no doubt?

16 April 2009, 18:15	#51
frost242 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France, 87 Age: 44 Posts: 96	This Chameleon seems to reproduce everything in a C=64 expect the SID, doesn't it ?

22 April 2009, 19:27	#59
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	But those registers do not directly affect what the Denise draws?

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