Game titles project...

scifi · 29 June 2013, 19:01

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I find really intriguing the idea of preserving the uniquely designed game titles... I always loved the letters that the creators were using for the titling of the game and in the past I used to draw them on sketchpad...

There is an ongoing project to preserve the games sprites... but what about the titles?
Wouldn't it be great to preserve them too? I wonder...

Please feel free to express your ideas...

I attach a sample from the game Wiz 'n' Liz...

DH · 29 June 2013, 20:57

Actually that's not a bad idea, my only concern is, does HOL have the time or manpower to be that selective?

I'm not saying it can't be done, or it's a waste of time, it just seems a lot of extra work for something that is already displayed on the DBS, albeit not in the way you're asking. Unless the titles are separate images and are added to the title screen, I really can't see it moving very fast if each title needs to be manually ripped from each image.

I'm not in control of HOL, so I can't really answer you directly, but I'm sure if you're offering, one of the main HOL guys will be able to answer you properly.

I actually like the idea, so don't be put off with what I wrote

EDIT: As an example of how difficult and time consuming it could be, take a look at the title screen for Dungeon Master II, now that's not going to be straightforward

lesta_smsc · 29 June 2013, 22:19

If there was a way to incorporate the files into Adobe Photoshop, then there is a way to do "Magic select" I believe which might speed things up, but I agree, with more complex backgrounds, this would be time consuming but I think enthusiasts will pull through!

scifi · 29 June 2013, 22:26

No, that's alright... I am not put off that easily...

After all, you are putting things under the right perspective here... and I'm afraid that you are absolutely right about everything that you said and I also know that there are so many projects running at the same time.

Time and effort is the issue here... take for example the sprites project... it's going really slow and I know how difficult and time consuming is that.
I just thought that the game titles might be more easily accessed and not so hard to obtain. I am not an expert though and maybe I'm wrong about this assumption too!

The example that you gave is difficult to process, for sure, but on the other hand most of the game titles are straightforward and stand out... well, one thing is certain.... the HOL and EAB team will always have things to do!

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts and ideas!

scifi · 29 June 2013, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesta_smsc

If there was a way to incorporate the files into Adobe Photoshop, then there is a way to do "Magic select" I believe which might speed things up, but I agree, with more complex backgrounds, this would be time consuming but I think enthusiasts will pull through!

Well, I don't know if that could be possible... Photoshop would certainly speed up things a lot. And you are absolutely right that the complex and more demanding backgrounds will be a challenge for enthusiasts!

EAB and Amiga scene is full of them... aren't we all?

s2325 · 29 June 2013, 22:40

"Magic select" have also free PhotoFiltre.

TCD · 29 June 2013, 23:22

We could add them as miscshots for the time being. Like DH said they don't really have any priority, but if people contribute them, we'll add them of course

Edit: This is how it'd look http://hol.abime.net/1740/miscshot

lesta_smsc · 30 June 2013, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCD

We could add them as miscshots for the time being. Like DH said they don't really have any priority, but if people contribute them, we'll add them of course

Edit: This is how it'd look http://hol.abime.net/1740/miscshot

I think this would be a nice addition. Which reminds me I still need to do those box/disk scans!

s2325 · 30 June 2013, 00:15

Please use PNG format to avoid color reduce and dithering.

scifi · 30 June 2013, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCD

We could add them as miscshots for the time being. Like DH said they don't really have any priority, but if people contribute them, we'll add them of course

Edit: This is how it'd look http://hol.abime.net/1740/miscshot

I would be happy to contribute as much as I can and thank you for making it real TCD!! It's nice to see your ideas becoming a reality!

It is a really nice addition!

Oh, by the way, it could be added next to game's title like the spriteshot... what do you think? Is it too much? Is there enough space to add it?

DH · 30 June 2013, 04:41

Yes, that would look neat

Hard edges in any PS style program is easy to deal with, my only serious issue is when the original artists applied manual anti alias to their GFX, where the edges are not as clean cut as most. I have dealt with some of these in the past and tbh it's like reverse pixel art, which is more trial and error than anything else, just like the original artist applies it, you have to decipher it in the best possible way that only you can see with your own eyes, which will differ from person to person. Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

Still, in most cases the reality of the idea IS workable, and is easily done, just the few will almost definitely present some hardships and problems along the way, and it's these few that could test peoples ability, even mine, all because we can't see through the eyes of the original gfx artist, despite the images being relitively small in comparison to today.

I'll shut up now, because it's late and I've had too many drinks, so I may not be making much sense atm

scifi · 30 June 2013, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2325

Please use PNG format to avoid color reduce and dithering.

Do you mean on the title capture, s2325?
Or were you talking to TCD?

s2325 · 30 June 2013, 09:41

Title capture - some HOL captures have patterns of dots because someone saved them as GIF files.

TCD · 30 June 2013, 09:45

Having it appear next to the title wouldn't really work (look good) as they vastly differ in size... Resizing them would be against the idea of preserving them.

The graphics should indeed be saved in lossless PNG (but don't convert your GIF to PNG, because that would be pointless) in the future.

Also seeing how many sprites we currently have for displaying next to the title it's safe to assume only a fraction of the games will get those title images. So I'd say having them as miscshots is a nice addition and will work for now

scifi · 30 June 2013, 10:12

Yes, it would be too much to have them next to the title and the size should be maintained as it was.
TCD, I'm more than pleased to have them as a miscshot... I have already many of them on my HD... but I'm afraid that they are all GIF images.

Where should I upload them for you to add them on HOL's DB?

TCD · 30 June 2013, 10:18

Please have a look here: http://hol.abime.net/hol_faq.php?section=contributions
Actually after having a second look at the Wiz 'n Liz GIF I'd say PNG should be a requirement. There are really a lot of artifacts and the image is also scaled. If we want to preserve them, we should try to have them at least 'pixel perfect'

scifi · 30 June 2013, 10:23

Ok then, I will abide to those rules... do you have any idea what program we should use to make this possible? Photoshop perhaps?
And what about the size of them?

TCD · 30 June 2013, 10:26

Basically just make sure that you start and end with a PNG. Also make sure you don't scale the image, only crop it if necessary. Any program that can handle PNG files should be suitable, but for the process of cutting the title/logo out Photoshop or GIMP seem to be the best applications indeed.

scifi · 30 June 2013, 10:30

Thank you so much for your contribution and the help...
When the first sample is ready I'll upload it here... I'd appreciate if you share your point of view about it!

scifi · 30 June 2013, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCD

Basically just make sure that you start and end with a PNG. Also make sure you don't scale the image, only crop it if necessary. Any program that can handle PNG files should be suitable, but for the process of cutting the title/logo out Photoshop or GIMP seem to be the best applications indeed.

Ok, I just finished with the first sample.. I chose Wonder Dog for the first specimen and I'd like to share it with you... the first file attached is on GIF format and the second file is the one that should be preserved on PNG format..
Please, share your thoughts... it seems neat, isn't it?
I believe the difference is outstanding!

29 June 2013, 19:01	#1
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 49 Posts: 287	Game titles project... I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I find really intriguing the idea of preserving the uniquely designed game titles... I always loved the letters that the creators were using for the titling of the game and in the past I used to draw them on sketchpad... There is an ongoing project to preserve the games sprites... but what about the titles? Wouldn't it be great to preserve them too? I wonder... Please feel free to express your ideas... I attach a sample from the game Wiz 'n' Liz... Attached Thumbnails

29 June 2013, 20:57	#2
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife/Geordie Land Age: 55 Posts: 4,097	Actually that's not a bad idea, my only concern is, does HOL have the time or manpower to be that selective? I'm not saying it can't be done, or it's a waste of time, it just seems a lot of extra work for something that is already displayed on the DBS, albeit not in the way you're asking. Unless the titles are separate images and are added to the title screen, I really can't see it moving very fast if each title needs to be manually ripped from each image. I'm not in control of HOL, so I can't really answer you directly, but I'm sure if you're offering, one of the main HOL guys will be able to answer you properly. I actually like the idea, so don't be put off with what I wrote EDIT: As an example of how difficult and time consuming it could be, take a look at the title screen for Dungeon Master II, now that's not going to be straightforward Last edited by DH; 29 June 2013 at 21:04.

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29 June 2013, 22:19	#3
lesta_smsc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,005	If there was a way to incorporate the files into Adobe Photoshop, then there is a way to do "Magic select" I believe which might speed things up, but I agree, with more complex backgrounds, this would be time consuming but I think enthusiasts will pull through!

29 June 2013, 22:26	#4
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 49 Posts: 287	No, that's alright... I am not put off that easily... After all, you are putting things under the right perspective here... and I'm afraid that you are absolutely right about everything that you said and I also know that there are so many projects running at the same time. Time and effort is the issue here... take for example the sprites project... it's going really slow and I know how difficult and time consuming is that. I just thought that the game titles might be more easily accessed and not so hard to obtain. I am not an expert though and maybe I'm wrong about this assumption too! The example that you gave is difficult to process, for sure, but on the other hand most of the game titles are straightforward and stand out... well, one thing is certain.... the HOL and EAB team will always have things to do! Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts and ideas!

29 June 2013, 22:40	#6
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 42 Posts: 17,789	"Magic select" have also free PhotoFiltre.

29 June 2013, 23:22	#7
TCD HOL/FTP data slave master Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 45 Posts: 26,998	We could add them as miscshots for the time being. Like DH said they don't really have any priority, but if people contribute them, we'll add them of course Edit: This is how it'd look http://hol.abime.net/1740/miscshot

30 June 2013, 00:15	#9
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 42 Posts: 17,789	Please use PNG format to avoid color reduce and dithering.

30 June 2013, 04:41	#11
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife/Geordie Land Age: 55 Posts: 4,097	Yes, that would look neat Hard edges in any PS style program is easy to deal with, my only serious issue is when the original artists applied manual anti alias to their GFX, where the edges are not as clean cut as most. I have dealt with some of these in the past and tbh it's like reverse pixel art, which is more trial and error than anything else, just like the original artist applies it, you have to decipher it in the best possible way that only you can see with your own eyes, which will differ from person to person. Well, that's the way I see it anyway. Still, in most cases the reality of the idea IS workable, and is easily done, just the few will almost definitely present some hardships and problems along the way, and it's these few that could test peoples ability, even mine, all because we can't see through the eyes of the original gfx artist, despite the images being relitively small in comparison to today. I'll shut up now, because it's late and I've had too many drinks, so I may not be making much sense atm

30 June 2013, 09:41	#13
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 42 Posts: 17,789	Title capture - some HOL captures have patterns of dots because someone saved them as GIF files.

30 June 2013, 09:45	#14
TCD HOL/FTP data slave master Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 45 Posts: 26,998	Having it appear next to the title wouldn't really work (look good) as they vastly differ in size... Resizing them would be against the idea of preserving them. The graphics should indeed be saved in lossless PNG (but don't convert your GIF to PNG, because that would be pointless) in the future. Also seeing how many sprites we currently have for displaying next to the title it's safe to assume only a fraction of the games will get those title images. So I'd say having them as miscshots is a nice addition and will work for now

30 June 2013, 10:12	#15
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 49 Posts: 287	Yes, it would be too much to have them next to the title and the size should be maintained as it was. TCD, I'm more than pleased to have them as a miscshot... I have already many of them on my HD... but I'm afraid that they are all GIF images. Where should I upload them for you to add them on HOL's DB?

30 June 2013, 10:18	#16
TCD HOL/FTP data slave master Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 45 Posts: 26,998	Please have a look here: http://hol.abime.net/hol_faq.php?section=contributions Actually after having a second look at the Wiz 'n Liz GIF I'd say PNG should be a requirement. There are really a lot of artifacts and the image is also scaled. If we want to preserve them, we should try to have them at least 'pixel perfect'

30 June 2013, 10:23	#17
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 49 Posts: 287	Ok then, I will abide to those rules... do you have any idea what program we should use to make this possible? Photoshop perhaps? And what about the size of them?

30 June 2013, 10:26	#18
TCD HOL/FTP data slave master Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 45 Posts: 26,998	Basically just make sure that you start and end with a PNG. Also make sure you don't scale the image, only crop it if necessary. Any program that can handle PNG files should be suitable, but for the process of cutting the title/logo out Photoshop or GIMP seem to be the best applications indeed.

30 June 2013, 10:30	#19
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 49 Posts: 287	Thank you so much for your contribution and the help... When the first sample is ready I'll upload it here... I'd appreciate if you share your point of view about it!

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