[Absolute last resort] Solution to A600 (maybe 1200?) keyboard cable problem - Page 5

spannernick · 03 May 2016, 09:31

I will have to try that,thanks,I did rub the contacts if thats what they are called with a pencil but it didn't do anything just the same,might have to get a new membrane,where can you get one cheap..?

I don't want to take the keyboard apart again,its working ok ish at the moment,all the keys I need are working,I will if I get a new membrane,well this is the seconded one I have had,the first one I cut it in the wrong place and now its crap..

My A1200 is temperamental the memory expansion card I have in it has zip memory and one is lose so every time it moves the Amiga crashes.Dam pain,wish I never got the dam thing. its this.. Memory master 1200 Board,sorry about going off topic there just dam annoying when your Amiga starts to play up..

Amiga1992 · 03 May 2016, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by spannernick

I will have to try that,thanks,I did rub the contacts if thats what they are called with a pencil but it didn't do anything just the same

Jope just said you shouldn't do that, so I would clean it all up and try what he said about the rubber thingies. I will do that myself today and report back.

jimbob · 04 May 2016, 01:00

Caig make a product which sounds ideal for refreshing the switch contacts. Can't say I've tried it but -

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f

Amiga1992 · 04 May 2016, 16:51

Well I opened up my keyboard last night, did the Jope paper trick, even changed plungers for that key and no dice. So I guess my membrane is ruined in that contact.
If something like the above works I would give it a try, but I am not sure if it would.

jimbob · 05 May 2016, 00:01

It's also possible that the tracks inside the membrane are corroded to breaking point someplace. The tracks normally look a uniform silvery colour behind the green but you can see the corrosion as a sort of crazing pattern of discolouration on the tracks.

Inspect for discoloured areas and use multimeter to measure resistance between connected pads. Don't measure continuity because even if the trace is good it will measure ~50ohms. If it measures a lot more than that or open circuit, then the trace is damaged inside.

You can repair by slicing out the rotten section and making new traces from foil using insulating tape as a new backing for the cut area. It's very hard to remake the connection because you can't solder and you have to scrape through to a good bit of track without damaging it. I made it work on an area with three bad tracks but next time I would sooner shoot myself . . . er, I mean spend the £20. Not recommended!

spannernick · 14 May 2016, 14:58

This is so hard ,I keep scratching to much off and trying to cut it straight is a pain too,If I drawn a line across it would help I guess..

I am doing this on my A600 btw.

spannernick · 15 May 2016, 12:44

Got my A600 keyboard working,well the right shift don't work but I have been doing this for 3 days now and its doing my wife head in and me too.but all of the letter keys and symbols are working now but no caps lock light but it's ok,have to stop now,there will be no cable left..

Amiga1992 · 16 May 2016, 16:25

YEah you shouldn't go crazy with it, you need t do it slowly and with patience.

If only one key doesn't work, there's probably something broken somewhere else. I Started to notice my right shift to be misbehaving too. o I guess I gotta get a new membrane.

spannernick · 21 May 2016, 15:08

I know why the right shift don't work ,I scratched to much off and removed to much of the contact.but all the other keys work I am happy with it,the left shift and caps lock works fine.Oh and this works on the A1200 to cos I did it on that as well a while ago.but can't reset it with CTRL+A+A,but add a reset switch to it from a PC,just need to make a hole of it now in the case.

Amiga1992 · 23 May 2016, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by spannernick

I know why the right shift don't work ,I scratched to much off and removed to much of the contact.

That isn't the reason mate, if you ruin a line, a whole row of keys should stop working at least, not just the one key.
Your membrane is ruined on that key as explained before. It has nothing to do with the connector to the motherboard.

spannernick · 28 May 2016, 19:12

Here is a video from youtube about using silver conductive paint on the connectors and it works...interesting.. see what you think.. [ Show youtube player ]

From youtube..

"I recapped my A1200. I was lazy and didn't de-solder the white zif connector for the keyboard before trying to desolder the capacitor behind it (do this). I singed the zif connector with the hot air gun, put it all back together and half the keys didn't work. Thought it must be the connector. It wasn't. The ribbon cable to the keyboard is delicate and gets worn down over time. Simply look at where the connector is trying to connect to the ribbon and then paint with silver conductive paint ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE RIBBON. Not my idea, it came from the Amiga forums. Good luck. ps. if you need a new connector then they are 31 pin 1.25mm pitch FFC connectors. They are almost impossible to find but starting points are 0039532315 and 52045-3145. Good luck."

The idea came from the Amiga Forums,which one,maybe here...??

If the poster of the video is on here,please tell us more..

and another one in more detail [ Show youtube player ]

jimbob · 29 May 2016, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

That isn't the reason mate, if you ruin a line, a whole row of keys should stop working at least, not just the one key.
Your membrane is ruined on that key as explained before. It has nothing to do with the connector to the motherboard.

Don't think that's correct, some keys including CTRL,Aleft,Aright,return, maybe space and also shift keys have a line to themselves.

ajk · 29 May 2016, 17:56

Here's my attempt at fixing a membrane. This one started out pretty chewed up, not sure what a previous owner had done with it...

Instead of mechanically scraping the top film off, I thought I'd use chemical means. First I of course snipped off the bad end, trying to get the cut as straight as possible. I then taped off a suitable section to work on. My first attempt was with pure acetone, but it is way too potent and the entire cable basically dissolved away.

So I cut a little more and tried again, this time with CRC brake cleaner. It's got acetone in it, but also other solvents and does not attack plastics as much. This time it was reasonably easy to get the traces exposed and then stop before the bottom layer dissolved.

I noticed another member had tried this too, earlier in the thread. I have attached some photos of the process. It didn't turn out 100% clean, but I'm gonna call it close enough

Jope · 29 May 2016, 20:36

Good show with bräkleen. It has only a bit of acetone in it, it's mainly naphtha. :-) It's my go-to cleaner for almost anything that looks like it can handle the solvents. :-)

Superman · 29 May 2016, 21:54

Just cut a little bit off my recently aquired A600 and all keys working again.

prowler · 29 May 2016, 23:02

That looks almost like new!

Well done indeed!

spannernick · 30 May 2016, 14:34

Can someone post a link to silver conductive paint on ebay,I never bought it before..? It might get my right shift working..?

Found some on ebay but which one do I need..? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fr...paint&_sacat=0

And I need the right size paint brush too..??

Amiga1992 · 31 May 2016, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob

Don't think that's correct, some keys including CTRL,Aleft,Aright,return, maybe space and also shift keys have a line to themselves.

I stand corrected if this is the case, which line on the ribbon would these be? It might be the issue I am currently having.

ajk: That is beautiful work! Do you think nail polish remover would be too aggressive?

For those looking for conductive paint, does this work? I almost buy a silver paint pen the other day.

Jope · 31 May 2016, 15:49

The A600 schematics are rare that they include the keyboard matrix.

http://www.amigawiki.de/dnl/schematics/A600_R2.pdf last page

amiman99 · 31 May 2016, 15:58

Looks good @ajk, I may use your technique next time my cable fails. I got it working by gently scraping off the to layer of the plastic, but your way is much cleaner.

I wonder if there is a way to strengthen the contacts a little, paint, pen or maybe electrolysis to coat the contacts?

03 May 2016, 09:31	#81
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	I will have to try that,thanks,I did rub the contacts if thats what they are called with a pencil but it didn't do anything just the same,might have to get a new membrane,where can you get one cheap..? I don't want to take the keyboard apart again,its working ok ish at the moment,all the keys I need are working,I will if I get a new membrane,well this is the seconded one I have had,the first one I cut it in the wrong place and now its crap.. My A1200 is temperamental the memory expansion card I have in it has zip memory and one is lose so every time it moves the Amiga crashes.Dam pain,wish I never got the dam thing. its this.. Memory master 1200 Board,sorry about going off topic there just dam annoying when your Amiga starts to play up.. Attached Thumbnails

14 May 2016, 14:58	#86
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	This is so hard ,I keep scratching to much off and trying to cut it straight is a pain too,If I drawn a line across it would help I guess.. I am doing this on my A600 btw. Last edited by spannernick; 14 May 2016 at 15:04.

28 May 2016, 19:12	#91
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	Here is a video from youtube about using silver conductive paint on the connectors and it works...interesting.. see what you think.. [ Show youtube player ] From youtube.. "I recapped my A1200. I was lazy and didn't de-solder the white zif connector for the keyboard before trying to desolder the capacitor behind it (do this). I singed the zif connector with the hot air gun, put it all back together and half the keys didn't work. Thought it must be the connector. It wasn't. The ribbon cable to the keyboard is delicate and gets worn down over time. Simply look at where the connector is trying to connect to the ribbon and then paint with silver conductive paint ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE RIBBON. Not my idea, it came from the Amiga forums. Good luck. ps. if you need a new connector then they are 31 pin 1.25mm pitch FFC connectors. They are almost impossible to find but starting points are 0039532315 and 52045-3145. Good luck." The idea came from the Amiga Forums,which one,maybe here...?? If the poster of the video is on here,please tell us more.. and another one in more detail [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by spannernick; 28 May 2016 at 19:20.

29 May 2016, 17:56	#93
ajk Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,341	Here's my attempt at fixing a membrane. This one started out pretty chewed up, not sure what a previous owner had done with it... Instead of mechanically scraping the top film off, I thought I'd use chemical means. First I of course snipped off the bad end, trying to get the cut as straight as possible. I then taped off a suitable section to work on. My first attempt was with pure acetone, but it is way too potent and the entire cable basically dissolved away. So I cut a little more and tried again, this time with CRC brake cleaner. It's got acetone in it, but also other solvents and does not attack plastics as much. This time it was reasonably easy to get the traces exposed and then stop before the bottom layer dissolved. I noticed another member had tried this too, earlier in the thread. I have attached some photos of the process. It didn't turn out 100% clean, but I'm gonna call it close enough Attached Thumbnails

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04 May 2016, 01:00	#83
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 45 Posts: 632	Caig make a product which sounds ideal for refreshing the switch contacts. Can't say I've tried it but - http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f

04 May 2016, 16:51	#84
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Well I opened up my keyboard last night, did the Jope paper trick, even changed plungers for that key and no dice. So I guess my membrane is ruined in that contact. If something like the above works I would give it a try, but I am not sure if it would.

05 May 2016, 00:01	#85
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 45 Posts: 632	It's also possible that the tracks inside the membrane are corroded to breaking point someplace. The tracks normally look a uniform silvery colour behind the green but you can see the corrosion as a sort of crazing pattern of discolouration on the tracks. Inspect for discoloured areas and use multimeter to measure resistance between connected pads. Don't measure continuity because even if the trace is good it will measure ~50ohms. If it measures a lot more than that or open circuit, then the trace is damaged inside. You can repair by slicing out the rotten section and making new traces from foil using insulating tape as a new backing for the cut area. It's very hard to remake the connection because you can't solder and you have to scrape through to a good bit of track without damaging it. I made it work on an area with three bad tracks but next time I would sooner shoot myself . . . er, I mean spend the £20. Not recommended!

15 May 2016, 12:44	#87
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	Got my A600 keyboard working,well the right shift don't work but I have been doing this for 3 days now and its doing my wife head in and me too.but all of the letter keys and symbols are working now but no caps lock light but it's ok,have to stop now,there will be no cable left..

16 May 2016, 16:25	#88
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	YEah you shouldn't go crazy with it, you need t do it slowly and with patience. If only one key doesn't work, there's probably something broken somewhere else. I Started to notice my right shift to be misbehaving too. o I guess I gotta get a new membrane.

21 May 2016, 15:08	#89
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	I know why the right shift don't work ,I scratched to much off and removed to much of the contact.but all the other keys work I am happy with it,the left shift and caps lock works fine.Oh and this works on the A1200 to cos I did it on that as well a while ago.but can't reset it with CTRL+A+A,but add a reset switch to it from a PC,just need to make a hole of it now in the case.

29 May 2016, 20:36	#94
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Good show with bräkleen. It has only a bit of acetone in it, it's mainly naphtha. :-) It's my go-to cleaner for almost anything that looks like it can handle the solvents. :-)

29 May 2016, 21:54	#95
Superman Super Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wakefield Age: 48 Posts: 1,334	Just cut a little bit off my recently aquired A600 and all keys working again.

29 May 2016, 23:02	#96
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	That looks almost like new! Well done indeed!

30 May 2016, 14:34	#97
spannernick Retro Nuts Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London/UK Age: 53 Posts: 1,184	Can someone post a link to silver conductive paint on ebay,I never bought it before..? It might get my right shift working..? Found some on ebay but which one do I need..? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fr...paint&_sacat=0 And I need the right size paint brush too..??

31 May 2016, 15:49	#99
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	The A600 schematics are rare that they include the keyboard matrix. http://www.amigawiki.de/dnl/schematics/A600_R2.pdf last page

31 May 2016, 15:58	#100
amiman99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX USA Age: 50 Posts: 1,184	Looks good @ajk, I may use your technique next time my cable fails. I got it working by gently scraping off the to layer of the plastic, but your way is much cleaner. I wonder if there is a way to strengthen the contacts a little, paint, pen or maybe electrolysis to coat the contacts?

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