What would the ultimate OCS/ECS Amiga game be like IYO?

[CCCP alert]

For me it would be something like a Cinemaware game with the complexity of It Came from the Desert and all the open ended immersive gameplay that offers but with the action scenes using the finest game engine code so driving around using a Lotus II engine, side scrolling wandering levels with Shadow of the Beast intro/above ground section and boss fights with large objects in the quality of something like Turrican 3. High quality top end analogue synths for the ambient soundtrack and the graphics would be by Jim Sachs. Lots of different voices for speech in game. Anim brush characters over static background cutscenes with parallax layers for added depth. It would come on a CD and be A570/CDTV compatible so it could be the largest Amiga game of all time.

How about yours?

[copse]

What defines ultimate? Not knocking the question, just not sure.

Is it an exercise in exploration where what we now know is possible looking back, is laid out in order to define that something not realised is actually possible given the modern techniques we see here on EAB?

Is it just someone's fantasy that they always wished was fulfilled?

[saimon69]

Might be not THE ultimate OCS/ECS game, but a decent version of outrun for those machines - not pixel perfect but playable, decent frame rate, good audio and with adequate graphics at levels of Super Hang On would heal for me a deep wound;

Another one would be an use of those superscaler routines like the ones in unreal to do either a Galaxy Force or a Power Drift clone

[TCD]

For me personally Turrican 2 pretty much nailed it. The mix of platforming, shooting and exploration is on point for my taste. The presentation isn't too shabby either

[ransom1122]

+1 for Turrican II

[AestheticDebris]

It would be a Dizzy game. But not one of those "intended for the 8-bit" designs, one with a massive world where you could save your progress and it would take hours to get through. Basically Resident Evil with less 3D and horror.

[Megalomaniac]

Mine would largely stick to a single genre, or maybe alternate two distinct gameplay sections. Definitely an emphasis on action (or puzzles or strategy, but certainly something the player is in control of) rather than non-interactive cutscenes, to me they were a wrong direction that games went in post-Amiga.

In terms of filling gaps in the Amiga catalogue, I'd be thinking a Streets of Rage variant, or perhaps a JRPG (things like Shadow Fighter and Fightin' Spirit eventually cornered the one-on-one beat 'em up market, which was a weakness during the Amiga's main commercial life).

We could go on forever listing arcade games which needed better conversions, Rolling Thunder, Chase HQ and Renegade come to mind as especially ghastly on the Amiga, but I do wonder if anything close to Power Drift or After Burner is within the capability of a 7Mhz processor - Drivin' Force is about the closest to the former, and (to be polite) you can see where they've taken big compromises.

Also, I suspect it's not possible, but I wonder if full-screen full-colour texture mapping (or a decent imitation of it) can be done at a playable speed.

[ransom1122]

Chaos Engine ECS would be another

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

...In terms of filling gaps in the Amiga catalogue, I'd be thinking a Streets of Rage variant, or perhaps a JRPG (things like Shadow Fighter and Fightin' Spirit eventually cornered the one-on-one beat 'em up market, which was a weakness during the Amiga's main commercial life)....

maybe something like Fist2 C64, without the slow backtracking parts

or a pure jrpg, finally
that other Hamulet large bobs thread tells this to me

[lionagony]

My ultimate OCS/ECS game would alternate between a platform game and a shooter each level kind of like Pegasus. I would love to see some levels with 4 or even 5 layers of overlapping parallax with the bitplanes split 2,1,2,1 so 3 colors, 1 color, 3 colors, 1 color plus transparent and the colors copperized like Agony so you could switch the palette down the screen. On top of these 4 overlapping layers I'd also love a repeating sprite parallax layer to make it 5 and some beautiful copper gradients.

I'd have Henk Neiborg do the graphics for the platform levels and Frank Sauer for the shooter levels. Henk would have Robin Levy as an assistant and Frank would have Kevin Saunders as assistant. I'd love to see huge bosses like in Sword and Mode 7 effects like in Mr Nutz and Brian the Lion. Jim Sachs could do all the cut scenes and Tigerskunk, Hoffman and Martin Ahman on music. There are so many great programmers so won't name them all but a few of the Amiga dream team on coding for sure.

Give me 20 levels, 10 of each style with some vertically scrolling, some horizontal, maybe a few with autoscroll for variety. Lots of action and maybe a couple of small puzzles and I'd be very happy.

[CCCP alert]

Originally Posted by copse

What defines ultimate? Not knocking the question, just not sure.

Is it an exercise in exploration where what we now know is possible looking back, is laid out in order to define that something not realised is actually possible given the modern techniques we see here on EAB?

Is it just someone's fantasy that they always wished was fulfilled?

In my case it was all the technical bits or gameplay from my fav games that impressed me the most fused into 1 game and expanded to fill the CD. Nothing technically impossible.

Another one would be something like a sandbox wild western game using something like the game engine from Dred etc.

But it's whatever you want it to be really, it's a personal thing what each of us loved about the Amiga and those games we cherish so it might not involve any kind of technical aspect etc. Sort of "I really wish they made ......... for Amiga" and it could be something that doesn't need expert coding because it's all in the idea or maybe a 2D game as 3D/Isometric etc or maybe just a gauntlet clone + RPG mix of styles. No rules, just your dream Amiga game that never came out, maybe a cancelled project. Another one for me could be Dick Special-The Search for Spook by Sandy White (the guy who wrote Ant Attack 3D on Speccy). It looked like it would be really amazing after checking it out on Games That Weren't. Remember seeing the test demo at a computer show and waiting and waiting for it. Then you also have the Jim Sachs 20,000 Leagues under the sea CD32(?) demo which would have been awesome if Disney would let him license it.

Like I said, anything goes, just curious what ideas people have for games based on what they have seen on other Amiga games or even demos etc.

[CCCP alert]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Might be not THE ultimate OCS/ECS game, but a decent version of outrun for those machines - not pixel perfect but playable, decent frame rate, good audio and with adequate graphics at levels of Super Hang On would heal for me a deep wound;

Another one would be an use of those superscaler routines like the ones in unreal to do either a Galaxy Force or a Power Drift clone

Same here really, I'd sacrifice the hills/dips in the road of Amiga Chase HQ for the Pole Position flat earth style port the FM Towns got.

I forgot about that flying section of Unreal, another routine that would have come in handy, maybe a 2.5D version of the PC Windows "Forbidden Forest 3D" version of the trilogy and some really sinister moody synth music and blood curdling horrific sound effects for all the bad things that happened. Maybe walking around the tunnels in It Came from the Desert looking for the giant ants to shoot the antenna off, one of the Hugo games had the exact thing I am thinking of too.

Always wondered if after Lotus II they would do a rally game, all the elements were there with the different handling on each track surface/condition. Kind of made sense to me back then. Just a graphic hack to change the Lotus into an Audi or Lancia rally car from 1992 would be great really.

[CCCP alert]

Originally Posted by lionagony

My ultimate OCS/ECS game would alternate between a platform game and a shooter each level kind of like Pegasus.

I like the idea of a mythical creature based fantasy shooter with fantasy art style Amiga graphics would be cool. The starting level of Beast 1 really reminds me of the art by Rodney Matthews.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by CCCP alert

Maybe walking around the tunnels in It Came from the Desert looking for the giant ants to shoot the antenna off, one of the Hugo games had the exact thing I am thinking of too.

Not an ant infested tunnel but this game get close to the idea (albeit is slow on 500)
[ Show youtube player ]

However i think the ant infested tunnel might work MUCH better with the Dread engine - an idea for Tsak???

[Photon]

---redacted--- wrong thread

[Arne]

As a strategy and chill-game person.. perhaps a "persistence/progression" type game, i.e. something in the spirit of Dwarf Fortress, Rim World, Stardew Valley (obviously greatly simplified to run on an old Amiga). In short, a game I can boot up, mess around in, progress, build, maybe view little people fighting. My comfort games on the Amiga were Frontier, Utopia, Megalomania, Dune II. Civ was a bit too dry for me. I also don't mind a good action game, but they always give me an empty feeling once the level is over.

[CCCP alert]

Originally Posted by Photon

Great thread CCCP_Alert! And some other good input too. I agree that 'pay us, then add your own warez' is a very weird proposition.

I would add that being indie and accepting only voluntary donations or no donations allows you to make something good / how it should be / how you like it, and stay true to yourself. and your vision. I disagree that software should be free with no recognition of real costs like spare time spent testing and improving, server costs, necessary upgrades, etc.

I think decent is 50 EUR so that's what I did. But mid-pandemic when I was fired for having Covid, or 2003, when my employer went bankrupt, I could not have donated 1 cent.

So IMO, pay what you want is decent - if it still lets you try for free.

I think I remember Jeff Minter going down the licenseware road during his 16bit ST/Amiga period, a few levels/time limited version for free and a small-ish sum via mailed in payment for the full versions, or special editions like "Rude Llamatron" etc. I think I read Jeff was just fed up with the distributors of the time not being favourable to Llamasoft so he had problems getting volume into store shelves?

[Rob68K]

To my mind, some of the best 'Amiga games' were by Bill Williams.
I think the approach to making a truly great Amiga game is to design with the platform in mind and to never stray from that, which was never as common as it might have been because everyone of my generation was obsessed with arcade games and with the delusion that the Amiga could in any way emulate what was going on there.
The name 'Amiga' is apt really in so far as you have this great girlfriend right there and you're constantly thinking of ways to make her more like a supermodel instead of appreciating her for what she is.

[gimbal]

The same as for any other chipset or platform. Games which are very replayable and have 2 player coop support. The chipset really has nothing to do with it.

[kremiso]

Turrican character + rotary weapon ofc doing a mess into the Shadow of the Beast forest

more seriously, a new Lost Patrol with better 'arcade' sequences
that game has a lot of unexplored potential imo
offtopic, maybe on AGA