PFS3 or FFS?

[Solskogen]

I'm gonna be setting up Amiga OS 3.2 on the MiSTer FPGA, but I haven't decided (yet) if I should use PFS3 or the default FFS. Does it matter, really?

[thomas]

PFS is faster, FFS has better recovery options.

[nikosidis]

From what I heard they fixed FFS in OS 3.1.4 or 3.2 but PFS3 is dead steady and fast. I never had a problem with it.

[Solskogen]

Sorry for bringing this thread up from the grave, but should I use PFS3 or PDS3?

[thomas]

PFS3AIO

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio

[Solskogen]

That's the one I'm using, but does the question is what DosType I should use. The one for PFS3 or PDS3?

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by solskogen

i'm gonna be setting up amiga os 3.2 on the mister fpga, but i haven't decided (yet) if i should use pfs3 or the default ffs. Does it matter, really?

For me better SFS

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

For me better SFS

SFS isn't supported anymore and it won't ever be updated. If you want speed, PFS3AIO is faster, if you want reliability, FFS from 3.2 is probably the safest choice.

I would never use SFS (even less so SFS/02) in 2022

[AMIGASYSTEM]

I've been using SFS for more than 20 years on many of my Amiga and AROS OS and it never invalidated a Hardisk/HardFile, in my opinion SFS is the most stable filesystem not for nothing also used by OS4 and MOS.

PFS is the fastest but for me who loves speed it creates problems when I do fast reboots, where the last files copied or the last settings are not saved, to avoid this I always have to wait before a reboot and then check if everything went well, all this takes me away a lot of time

with SFS I have the same speed and I don't have to wait anything before rebooting

FFS created too many invalidations in the past so I don't use it anymore.


--- Italiano ---


Io uso SFS da più di 20 anni su tantissimi miei OS Amiga e AROS e non si è mai invalidato un Hardisk/HardFile, a mio avviso SFS è il filesystem più stabile non per niete utilizzato anche da OS4 e MOS.

PFS e il più veloce ma per me che amo la velocità mi crea problemi quando faccio veloci riavii, dove gli ultimi file copiati o gli ultimi settaggi non vengono salvati, per evitare questo devo sempre attendere prima di un riavvio e poi verificare se tutto è andato a buon fine, tutto questo mi porta via tanto tempo

con SFS ho la stessa velocià e non devo attendere nulla prima di riavviare

FFS mi ha creato troppe invalidazioni in passato quindi non l'ho più utilizzato.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Solskogen

That's the one I'm using, but does the question is what DosType I should use. The one for PFS3 or PDS3?

The choice is only relevant for harddrives larger than 4GB and then PDS3 is only needed for rare SCSI controllers which crash or hang on the attempt to use TD64 or NSD64. There are even controllers like the Phoenix board with pbscsi.device which destroy the harddrive on the attempt to use direct SCSI. So you should use PFS3 where possible and choose PDS3 only if required.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

I've been using SFS for more than 20 years on many of my Amiga and AROS OS and it never invalidated a Hardisk/HardFile, in my opinion SFS is the most stable filesystem not for nothing also used by OS4 and MOS.

PFS is the fastest but for me who loves speed it creates problems when I do fast reboots, where the last files copied or the last settings are not saved, to avoid this I always have to wait before a reboot and then check if everything went well, all this takes me away a lot of time

with SFS I have the same speed and I don't have to wait anything before rebooting

FFS created too many invalidations in the past so I don't use it anymore.

I have a friend who had all kind of issues with SFS - lost partitions, corruptions when copying data, etc... Every available SFS recovery tool didn't work. On top of that Mounter on OS3.2 didn't even mount the SFS partitions. No issues with PFS3 or FFS.

Both AROS and OS4 use modified and/or updated versions of SFS which aren't available on OS3.X.

FFS certainly did its fair share of invalidations back in the OS3.1 days, but it's a lot stabler now.

I use PFS3AIO and FFS (I started using it with 3.1.4+) and I have never faced the files not being saved issue. I always wait around 3-4 seconds from the last write as a good measure, but I do that on my other retro systems as well (like MS-DOS PCs), it's just a good practice to do to avoid issues.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by jbenam

I have a friend who had all kind of issues with SFS - lost partitions, corruptions when copying data, etc...
.

It can happen but it is very rare, it could be that your friend had a defective HD, as I said I use SFS for more than twenty years on dozens of systems and never had a corruption.

---- Italiano ---

Può capitare ma è rarissimo, può essere che il tuo amico avesse un HD difettoso, come detto uso SFS da più di venti anni su decine di sistemi e mai avutto una corruzione.

Every available SFS recovery tool didn't work. On top of that Mounter on OS3.2 didn't even mount the SFS partitions. No issues with PFS3 or FFS.

You don't need any mounting, HDs with the SFS Filesystem can be booted from any Amiga normally, if you want we discuss in Italian elsewhere and I'll explain why

---- Italiano -----

Non serve alcun montaggio, gli HD con il Filesystem SFS possono essere avviati da qualsuiasi Amiga normalmente, se vuoi ne discutiamo in Italiano altrove e ti spiego il perchè

Both AROS and OS4 use modified and/or updated versions of SFS which aren't available on OS3.X.

SFS OS3 is supported by all Amiga systems, I use my SFS HardFiles on OS4, MOS and AROS.

---- Italiano ----

SFS OS3 è supportato da tutti i sistemi Amiga, uso i miei HardFile SFS su OS4, MOS e AROS.

I use PFS3AIO and FFS (I started using it with 3.1.4+) and I have never faced the files not being saved issue. I always wait around 3-4 seconds from the last write as a good measure, but I do that on my other retro systems as well (like MS-DOS PCs), it's just a good practice to do to avoid issues.

Try to restart immediately after copying a file or save a config and you'll see that the restart is as if you have not done anything, of course if you wait about ten seconds does not happen!

---- Italiano ----

Prova a riavviare immediatamente dopo aver copiato un file o salvato un config e vedrai che al riavvio è come se non hai fatto nulla, certo se aspetti una decina di secondi non succede !!!

[thomas]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

It can happen

Exactly. No matter how rare it is, it can happen and when it happens all is lost. There is not a single working recovery program for SFS. If you don't have a backup, bad luck.

I rather prefer a file system which might not be rock stable, but I can get my data back if something happens.

And against the issue with PFS3 that data is not written immediately, you can use http://aminet.net/package/disk/salv/DiskSafe

[Radertified]

Originally Posted by thomas

And against the issue with PFS3 that data is not written immediately, you can use http://aminet.net/package/disk/salv/DiskSafe

This seems pretty cool. Is this something anyone has used on a day-to-day basis and can vouch for it?

I'd happily add it to my systems if I know it's been battle tested.

[indigolemon]

Originally Posted by Radertified

This seems pretty cool. Is this something anyone has used on a day-to-day basis and can vouch for it?

I'd happily add it to my systems if I know it's been battle tested.

Yup - use it here, I call it in my S-S

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Radertified

This seems pretty cool. Is this something anyone has used on a day-to-day basis and can vouch for it?

Yes, that's a time-proven design. Actually, it should be really part of FFS.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by thomas

Exactly.
And against the issue with PFS3 that data is not written immediately, you can use http://aminet.net/package/disk/salv/DiskSafe

Yes thanks Thomas I know the software, my problem is not the invalidated file, but the fact that I forget to "wait" and if I do an immediate restart of the system I don't find the work done.
For this reason, in the past on my 4000/060 it happened that some big files were not finished "incomplete" without having any message from the system.

Regarding the possible invalidation for my habit I always make a weekly backup, but as said at the moment with SFS nothing has ever happened to me.

[RoC]

Thanks for pointing to Disksafe, never had problem with PFS3AIO but better safe than sorry

[Radertified]

Originally Posted by indigolemon

Yup - use it here, I call it in my S-S

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Yes, that's a time-proven design. Actually, it should be really part of FFS.

Thanks guys! I'll be adding it ASAP

[thomas]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

Yes thanks Thomas I know the software, my problem is not the invalidated file, but the fact that I forget to "wait" and if I do an immediate restart of the system I don't find the work done.

That's exactly what DiskSafe is for: it installs a reset handler and when you press Ctrl-A-A it first writes all changes to disk before it actually resets the computer.