Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive...

[trydowave]

This topic spawned discussion about a game dev competition quite naturally, this has now been split to it's own thread:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=92858

Hopefully this is OK with all.

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Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive as the C64 etc?

The C64 has been getting some great releases, Metal Dust the amazing looking Sams Journey and a game I brought recently, Knight n Grail. (great game btw)

I recently played the new Castlevania on the Speccy and I think its the best game on that system.

I wish the Amiga homebrew scene was like this.

I understand that it takes a whole lot more effort and time to make 16bit games but since there's so much interest (and love) in the Amiga community it would be good if some games could be produced and then sold, maybe via Kickstarter or something.

Im sure most of us would shell out for a new polished game, even if it was download only.

Thoughts?

[nobody]

Maybe because making Amiga games is too complicated?

[Pyromania]

He's hoping the Amiga homebrew scene takes off. Once I got the Amiga I lost all interest in my C64 and sold it way back in the 1980's. I can't see myself ever getting into the C64 scene again but the Amiga scene still excites me and much can be done. Virtual Amiga's, FPGA Amiga's and NG Amiga's keep getting more interesting.

Some people really love the C64 and I can respect that. It was my first computer as well. But for me personally the Amiga was so beyond the C64 that it set the sun on my interest in that platform. I even thought in 1992 I needed a C64 again and bought an SX-64 cheap. But after two days I realized my C64 interest was over forever.

[s2325]

If it's not game for A500 there is too much ranting while C64 have no such problem. If it's game for A500 it's compared to old commercial games instead of Public Domain releases.

[Superman]

The threat of lawsuits will put many people off like what happened to Hippnios with the Smurf Rescue game.

[Pyromania]

@Suoerman

They will have to come up with new game ideas then. Amiga community is always innovative. The few, the proud, the creative.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by trydowave

Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive as the C64 etc?

Because people in the Amiga scene spend more time whining on forums and having delusions of Amiga making a comeback in the mainstream instead of actually producing something themselves.

[wXR]

Since everyone else's dumb answers are here, mine is: Not enough open source :-)

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=77722&page=1 (that's for you, Britelite )

[Michael Sykes]

Originally Posted by britelite

Because people in the Amiga scene spend more time whining on forums and having delusions of Amiga making a comeback in the mainstream instead of actually producing something themselves.

I can't add anything at all. Brilliant...

[britelite]

Originally Posted by wXR

Since everyone else's dumb answers are here, mine is: Not enough open source :-)

The c64 scene seems to be doing just fine without open source

[TMR]

Originally Posted by wXR

Since everyone else's dumb answers are here, mine is: Not enough open source :-)

i know it was just a cheap excuse to wedge the open source thing in but, like Britelite says, the C64 scene is doing what it does with very little in the way of open source and the same is true for most of the other platforms too so there's very little open source development on the Spectrum, Atari 8-bit or anything else for that matter. Not having some open source examples to pick through isn't a hinderance and the lack of it doesn't stop people now like it didn't back in the 1980s or 1990s.

Here comes the "speech" i always give during these discussions: if you guys really want more releases for the Amiga then there's one guaranteed way to see those arriving; pick up the tools, sit down and get involved with making things that you want to see. If you don't have the skills but the Amiga is truly important to you, that should be more than enough reason to learn what's needed. Time is an issue of course, but that's a constant for everybody and people like Galahad, Britelite or any other developer whose work you admire also have to balance coding time against work and family/social time so it can be done. If you don't know where to even start just ask people who are already doing what you want to, then pick a simple project and just feckin' go for it.

Don't feel confident with diving straight in at assembly language? Fine, just consider high level languages like AMOS, Blitz or whatever you feel comfortable with. Can't draw or compose for toffee? No problem again, build "test data" like triangles for spaceships or stick men, borrow some modules and samples but get something working because you can always reach out to the community for a graphics artist or musician later when there's something moving to entice them to your project. And don't overstretch yourself by trying to do the next [insert huge game title here], aim for something simple but fun and try to set realistic goals.

i rarely offer myself as a positive example of anything but i've just finished a C64 project that has taken me about three years and is based on a couple of games that i loved as a kid. It looks like this:



Why is it C64 and not Amiga? Because i'm primarily an 8-bit bunny, those platforms are where my interests lie so that's what i develop for.

So to sum up with a TL;DR version: at least some of the people who can really make a difference by producing the Amiga games, tools or demos of the future are the ones reading this post. Okay, rant over. =-)

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by trydowave

Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive as the C64 etc?

Originally Posted by britelite

Because people in the Amiga scene spend more time whining on forums and having delusions of Amiga making a comeback in the mainstream instead of actually producing something themselves.

Hit the nail right on the head with a sledgehammer, particularly the whining on forums bit!

People in the 8-bit scene, for mine, are far more project-minded/community-spirited, and run around the place with a lot less attitude of entitlement when it comes to online happenings with their platform. Without doubt, it's what fans the embers of my interest in the C64 all these years later (despite my love for the Ami)!!

Originally Posted by wXR

Since everyone else's dumb answers are here, mine is: Not enough open source :-)

Originally Posted by britelite

The c64 scene seems to be doing just fine without open source

I read wXR's post before your response and, I have to say, you took the words right out of my head! For your astute observation sir, here's a little affirmation from the Fonz too.....

[john1979]

Originally Posted by nobody

Maybe because making Amiga games is too complicated?

This is the answer. We see some homebrew games for the A500 but it's a more complicated system that requires deeper understanding and greater development time than the good ole C64.

[nobody]

It requires much more to make Amiga games than C64 games. Very unlikely for someone to jump into this "just for fun".

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by trydowave

Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive as the C64 etc?

Because there aren't as many motivated people in the Amiga scene as there are in the C64 scene.
Basically, what Britelite and TMR said.
I think most of the community of Amiga fans is only focused in getting their machines up and running to play games, while the C64 people, a LOT of them, rather do cretive stuff with them, like games, music, graphics, demos, etc. instead of just using them for games.

The ratio of creative people vs. plain users is much more favourable on the C64.
I don't believe this "it requires a lot more" argument, at all. There are some incredibly complicated games and advancements being made on the C64 which also require a very high level of understanding of the system and stuff, yet, as I said, they ARE being made, while noting happens on the Amiga.

[TMR]

Originally Posted by john1979

This is the answer. We see some homebrew games for the A500 but it's a more complicated system that requires deeper understanding and greater development time than the good ole C64.

Games don't need any serious levels of technical ability and the high level languages take away the need for a deeper understanding; some of the most playable games out there on any system will be at best passable "under the hood" and many of those titles will be a bit "meh" visually too.

Originally Posted by nobody

It requires much more to make Amiga games than C64 games. Very unlikely for someone to jump into this "just for fun".

My primary motivation for writing games and demos on the 8-bits is the same as most of the people i've spoken to over the years, a love of the machine and a want to support it in some form. If you're saying that there isn't a similar level of love for the Amiga here then fair enough, but it'd come as a surprise to me if that were true.

You're both making fairly bold claims about how much more difficult the Amiga is than the C64 so are you basing that verdict on experience with both...?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by TMR

You're both making fairly bold claims about how much more difficult the Amiga is than the C64 so are you basing that verdict on experience with both...?

Agreed again.

My own experience trying to make Amiga software proves that perseverance and the will to do something for the platform comes atop any technicality there could be and bring a project to fruition.
As said by TMR, you grab the tools and make it happen. Shit is not gonna make itself. People are whining all the time about "why is this or that not made if it seems feasible or why this game wasn't converted if it was possible"... you know what? You are right, but nobody actually GOES AND DOES IT and that's why you don't have it.

[Shatterhand]

I actually want to do stuff for Amiga. I am learning Blitz Basic in my spare time, I've already been able to do some parallax scroll and stuff

I want to make one first, simpler game just to have that feeling of "I've managed to make something !", and then I want to do a game I've always wanted to do for Amiga. Not a port or anything, but something I've been wanting to do for ages for the Amiga, and now that I own one, I feel like it's the moment to do it.

Of course, real life takes a lot of times from those projects, and we know this kind of stuff barely make any money if your try to go this way, so sometimes it's hard to justify working for a retro machine when you could be working for Steam or Android and make real money. (Even more when I could quickly make a PC or Mobile game, while an Amiga game, even if simpler, would be a lot more work to make sure it would work on a vanilla machine, and the learning curve of working with a new language)

Do you think a kickstarter for an Amiga game would really work? That's something I had thought about.

[Megol]

Originally Posted by britelite

because people in the amiga scene spend more time whining on forums and having delusions of amiga making a comeback in the mainstream instead of actually producing something themselves.

+1

[nobody]

If it's all about love, why old amiga game developers (hundreds of them) which have the knowledge don't make a game every now and then just for fun?
I don't think they hate the Amiga but it needs considerable time maybe a year or so and a team of 3 persons to make a quality game.
Amiga graphics (with arcade resolution, 4096 colors, copper, sprites, plus various tricks) are not programmers graphics and require a lot of planning and some chips to control to get things going.