Lemon/EAB Super League 2020 - Round 3 - Wolfchild

[malko]

There is some unfairness in the formula.
In fact people that are simply running (and thus not exploring the levels - thus not getting everything that can be gotten - thus having less points) have an advantage.
And saying that, I am not taking into consideration that a player may have got all the letters of the word BONUS at the end of the level 2 (check the manual if you don't know what happen with all letters)...
Something has to be changed in the formula I think.

[arcanist]

4,376,700 = 4,000,000 + 500,000 + 0 + 20,000 - 143,300

Got into the level with low health and 3 lives. I couldn't scrape together enough vitality to get wolf mode back.

I take back what I said about level 3, level 4 is the trolly level.

Level 3 boss tip: you can punch the enemies while they walk along the ceiling.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by malko

There is some unfairness in the formula.
In fact people that are simply running (and thus not exploring the levels - thus not getting everything that can be gotten - thus having less points) have an advantage.
And saying that, I am not taking into consideration that a player may have got all the letters of the word BONUS at the end of the level 2 (check the manual if you don't know what happen with all letters)...
Something has to be changed in the formula I think.

I agree. We should just ignore the in-game score completely.

[malko]

Originally Posted by john4p

I agree. We should just ignore the in-game score completely.

Don't know if the in-game score has to be dropped completely, but a discussion has to take place between the moderators. We should not forget that most players are not going to stay on the first levels and milk the score...
I think that the game is well designed enough to kill anyone(s) that would try to milk (1st loose the "gun" power, then the "wolf" power, then, stay only the fists).

I think, the score has to be included in a different way in the formula (but don't ask me how, have no idea yet ) .

[john4p]

It doesn't have to be included. Lives and health are sufficient enough. Better a few ties than to have some remaining doubts about possible milking.

[malko]

Strange. After the level 4 (the descending elevator) there is another level with the same background and enemies. It's not the level 5 as mapped in HOL.
Is it a full level or a small one to reach the boss ? I am asking as I lost my lives before reaching the end...

[malko]

Not a lot of time to play today but let's post some score anyway.

lvl2 : 2'341'000 = 2'000'000 + 0 + 300'000 + 60'000 - 19'000

[john4p]

Originally Posted by malko

Strange. After the level 4 (the descending elevator) there is another level with the same background and enemies. It's not the level 5 as mapped in HOL.
Is it a full level or a small one to reach the boss ? I am asking as I lost my lives before reaching the end...

Got there now, too:



This should've been another checkpoint. Takes long to get there and then there seems still quite a way to go to the boss (which I didn't reach).

Btw., if you got there already why did you post a level 2 score?

[lifeschool]

Good spot, thanks for noticing. I've added the new level 4B as a new level 5, along with a new checkpoint.

John, malko uses trainers to beat the game before going for legit runs.

[malko]

Originally Posted by john4p

[...] Btw., if you got there already why did you post a level 2 score?

Partly because of the formula. If I don't have a lot of health, with the score I do, and that need to be subtracted, I think it's not worth posting.
Fortunately, the levels are smaller than the Turrican ones, thus more easy to play again (and no 'time out' as well - so with some practice, it's possible to play a level to the end without loosing a life - but didn't say it's easy...) .

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Good spot, thanks for noticing. I've added the new level 4B as a new level 5, along with a new checkpoint. [...]

So a full level, ok. Thanks for the update lifeschool

Originally Posted by lifeschool

[...] John, malko uses trainers to beat the game before going for legit runs.

How can it be different when a +27 version is provided as ADF

Here is my tonight run :

lvl3 : 3'284'300 = 3'000'000 + 0 + 300'000 + 70'000 - 85'700

[arcanist]

4,799,000 = 4,000,000 + 500,000 + 400,000 + 50,000 - 151,000

I had 4 lives and 1 sliver of wolf for the second (die/restart) checkpoint, the descending platforms of gun/laser guys. I couldn't get past it at all! That seems very hard without going in with more wolf health and not dying. Have to do better on the pipes section, lost a lot of health there.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by malko

Partly because of the formula. If I don't have a lot of health, with the score I do, and that need to be subtracted, I think it's not worth posting.

At level 4.5 it'd definitely still been a much higher score than at level 2.

Originally Posted by lifeschool

John, malko uses trainers to beat the game before going for legit runs.

I see. That's something a real Amiga user with the original copy of the game can't do.
Unlike with the ten pints-code in Beast II and other inbuilt game cheats that are available to everyone for practice.

Maybe we should agree that for further rounds we may only practice with the cheats provided by the original game?

[arcanist]

Does anyone have a good strategy for the first level 4 pipe that spits flame-things, next to the button-activated pit?

There seems to be limited room to jump, unlike the later pipes. It seems to double-fire randomly (?) and I haven't found a reliable way to avoid taking damage.

[Solo Kazuki]

Hello

Not exactly about contest, but new WHDLoad patch is available with jump on 2nd/blue button. Could be more comfortable control for joypad players (preferring jump on button).

[malko]

Originally Posted by john4p

At level 4.5 it'd definitely still been a much higher score than at level 2. [...]

Don't worry, a better score will come shortly

Originally Posted by arcanist

Does anyone have a good strategy for the first level 4 pipe that spits flame-things, next to the button-activated pit?

There seems to be limited room to jump, unlike the later pipes. It seems to double-fire randomly (?) and I haven't found a reliable way to avoid taking damage.

Yes, I have a good strategy. Will I share it ? Hummmm

In fact, you can "annihilate" the spitting with your own "weapon". The pipes spit 3 times and pause.
Enjoy

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by john4p

Maybe we should agree that for further rounds we may only practice with the cheats provided by the original game?

I personally dont encourage training within the time-frame of a round to gain an advantage, as, just with the no savestate to train rule, it means a player can practice parts indefinitely in order to master the game. If nobody else is dong this, it give one player an unfair advantage.

The +27 Trainer ADF was provided as the newest and potentially the most bug free release. After providing example ADFs over the years, each time I present a non trained ADF, it turns out to be buggy, and I have to replace it was one with a long list of [+++] things at the end of the file name.

It is true that one method to master a game is to play it over and over with the trainers until you have mastered the game, or at least seen enough to know what to expect. I would say watching longplays does this even better, as it shows a perfect solution to problems. When it comes to built-in cheats like Ten Pints, this is achieving the same thing.

The rules say your legit run must be played legit, without help, or savestates, and malko is doing that. As for the rules on training, we can look into this for future rounds.

[Retroplay]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

Hello

Not exactly about contest, but new WHDLoad patch is available with jump on 2nd/blue button. Could be more comfortable control for joypad players (preferring jump on button).

I just updated the HDF to v1.2 for peeps without a Workbench setup wanting to play WHDLoad version with the improved controls.
On the ftp here:
/~Uploads/Retroplay/Bootable WHDLoad hdfs (no kickemu games)/Wolfchild WHDLoad v1.2.zip
Use A1200 quickstart and attach HDF as DH0.

[john4p]

Cool stuff - thank you Solo Kazuki and Retroplay!

Originally Posted by lifeschool

It is true that one method to master a game is to play it over and over with the trainers until you have mastered the game, or at least seen enough to know what to expect. I would say watching longplays does this even better, as it shows a perfect solution to problems.

True, that's why I also frown upon watching longplays. But as they're allowed then I guess we can allow practicing with trainers, too.

Originally Posted by lifeschool

When it comes to built-in cheats like Ten Pints, this is achieving the same thing.

Difference is, "Ten Pints" are available to real Amiga 500 users with an original copy of Beast 2, while the trainers are not available to a real Amiga 500 user with an original copy of Wolfchild.

In my opinion a real Amiga user with an original copy of the game must not be at any disadvantage.

Originally Posted by malko

Don't worry, a better score will come shortly

Good.

[arcanist]

Originally Posted by malko

Yes, I have a good strategy. Will I share it ? Hummmm

In fact, you can "annihilate" the spitting with your own "weapon". The pipes spit 3 times and pause.
Enjoy

Fight fire with... fire. Genius!



5,516,100 = 5,000,000 + 500,000 + 100,000 + 80,000 - 163,900

I made a mistake here and missed the X in the pit beside the first pipe. I thought it was button triggered, but perhaps need to shoot something. I'll save a bomb for it next time as I couldn't find the trigger.

Got to the boss and didn't do well learning its pattern on the spot.

[john4p]

lifeschool showed me that there are built-in cheats for Wolfchild as well:

Unlimited special weapon:
Type the perfect kiss at the title screen for an unlimited special weapon while playing as the wolfman. Note: This code cannot be combined with any other cheat.

Full active life meter:
Type soulpsychedelicide at the option screen. Note: This code cannot be combined with any other cheat.

Continue option:
Type its not all walking during game play. A new selection will appear at the options screen after the current game is over that will allow continuation at the last level played. Note: This code cannot be combined with any other cheat.

Thus it's fine to practice using those in my opinion. Especially the last one sounds really useful.

But I'm just a player now and lifeschool and mihcael must decide what's allowed for practicing and what not.