Special Amiga TOSEC tags

[TCD]

Since there are only 8 disks using the variations for 'HD install' until now it shouldn't be too much hassle to adjust them. My [with HD install] tag was only a suggestion, so [HD install] or [HD installer] are also fine

[PandMonium]

lol i was not saying "HD install" is right or is the same thing , only saying that it is +- similar to the one you described (the string), my point was that there are lots of string variations for similar meanings and we should first try to get one as the right choice to use or so. Was just showing the used flags with "HD"

[TCD]

Okay I will check these disks then and see if it's the same what I mean

[mai]

...next

[WB]
Description:
This flag is used, if it is required to load the "Workbench" first,

before you can start the game/program.
This flag is not used, if the game/program loads the "workbench" for itself
( simple loadwb command).

Question: Should this flag only used, if the original designed game/program requires to
load the "Workbench" first?.......i think so

[TCD]

Originally Posted by mai

Question: Should this flag only used, if the original designed game/program requires to
load the "Workbench" first?.......i think so
[/LEFT]

I would say that every disk that requires to load WB first should have this tag. It should not matter if it's a 'hack' that requires to load WB first or if it is designed this way

@PandMonium
Checked the disks (at least the Amiga ones ) and it's what I meant. The one with the tags provide a HD install, but don't need to be installed on HD.

[mai]

ok, confirmed

[FD-HD]
Description:
This flag is used, if it is required to install the game to Floppy or to Harddisk first.

[FD]
Description:
This flag is used, if it is required to install the game to Floppy first.
(Seems to be very rare.)

[HD]
Description:
This flag is used, if it is required to install the game to Harddisk.
The [HD] flag is often used wrong in the current Amiga-dat.
This flag is not used, if the game was fixed or modified to work on HD.

[WB]
Description:
This flag is used, if it is required to load the "Workbench" first,
before you can start the game/program.
This flag is not used, if the game/program loads the "workbench" for itself
( simple loadwb command).

[mai]

Talking about the [a no cracktro] flag.
I think this flag needs changing.
As i wrote in another thread, there are 2 cases:
1: Cracktro is still on disk, but dont appears at startup.
2: Cracktro is not on disk anymore.

....maybe the best choice is to make a difference, if you rename such games.

1: Cracktro is still on disk, but dont appears at startup.
"Ian" means: [m cracktro disabled]
Ok, looks good and also is logically.
But on the other hand, maybe its a bad idea, because
to put informations about 1 thing(no cracktro) in 2 different flags is not a good idea.
Since [a] flag has a descriptor it is possible to split the [no cracktro] flag in this way:

1: Cracktro is still on disk, but dont appears at startup.
[a cracktro disabled]
2: Cracktro is not on disk anymore.
[a2 cracktro removed]

... so this flag is more precise.

Tell me your opinions, any help would be useful.

[TCD]

Sounds good to me The [cracktro disabled] and [cracktro removed] tags are short and precise You have my vote

[mai]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Sounds good to me The [cracktro disabled] and [cracktro removed] tags are short and precise You have my vote

Ok, nice to read this, but this also means, that all games with [no cracktro]
flag in current Amiga-dat needs checking, to find out, why this games got the flag, and then to change it
....seems to be a heavy change, needs confirming, but as i said this are only suggestions.

...and there is another question:
Sometimes cracked games only have a "single screen" or evan only a displayed "message", which sometimes not appears at startup.
Should we make any difference or is this also called "cracktro"
.. any suggestions?

[PandMonium]

Nice to see some more activity lately
About the latest posts i'm not a renamer and idoru should also check all sugestions since he is the maintainer of most Amiga dats but afaik you don't need to use all flags, what i mean is that you can have:
1) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group]
2) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][a no cracktro]
3) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][m cracktro removed]

all 3 are possible and could probably be ok, i guess its something that is up to renamer but i would see them like:
1) Game "Title" cracked by Group
2) Same game cracked by same group being different because cracktro doesn't show up (group didn't add it or some bug in this version, no idea)
3) Same game again cracked by Group (meaning originally it as probably the same as 1) but after that was modified by someone (unknown), disabling the cracktro).

Anyway i think all this is just my opinion and probably in the end has to do with renamer preference but would be cool to try to use the same rule as much as possible to avoid duplication or variations between sets / dats, a bit like the more info flags also on this post

[mai]

Originally Posted by PandMonium

1) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group]
2) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][a no cracktro]
3) Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][m cracktro removed]

all 3 are possible and could probably be ok, i guess its something that is up to renamer but i would see them like:
1) Game "Title" cracked by Group
2) Same game cracked by same group being different because cracktro doesn't show up (group didn't add it or some bug in this version, no idea)
3) Same game again cracked by Group (meaning originally it as probably the same as 1) but after that was modified by someone (unknown), disabling the cracktro).

I think it is a bad idea to use both flags ([m] and [a]) for the same subject - the cracktro subject.
I think there are 2 solutions.
- Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][m cracktro removed]
- Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][m cracktro disabled]
.....so we need no [a no cracktro] flag anymore
by the way, i know [Idoru] dont like [m] flag

the second solution would be:

- Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][a cracktro removed]
- Title (199x)(Publisher)[cr Group][a2 cracktro disabled]

tell me, what you think, any suggestions, opinions, solutions would be useful

[TCD]

I would say the [a cracktro...] tags should be used Why do you use [a2...] for cracktro disabled mai? Any special reason for it?

[BippyM]

There are instances where the cracktro has been removed, and others where it simply does not exist.

Renamers need to be 100% certain that in both instances the group named is the actual group that has actually cracked a game. This can prove difficult as there were some groups (small fish) who simply removed a cracktro and then used their own, or hex-edited the binary to claim the glory for themselves.. Again difficult to determine

[mai]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I would say the [a cracktro...] tags should be used Why do you use [a2...] for cracktro disabled mai? Any special reason for it?

Ok, let me try to explain.
An Example:

Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a2].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a3].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a4].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a5].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a6].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a7].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a8].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a9].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a10].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a11].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a12 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a13 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a14 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a15 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a16 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a17 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a18].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a19].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a20].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a21].adf

You see [a] is counted to [a20].
[a] flag can have a descriptor.
[a12] to [a17] have the "no cracktro" descriptor.
...but we dont know, why this descriptor was added.
what we need is to know, why it got the "no cracktro" descriptor.
1. is the cracktro disabled?
2. is the cracktro removed?
so

Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a12 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a13 no cracktro].adf

could be

Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a12 cracktro removed].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a13 cracktro disabled].adf

maybe this is the wrong way to rename,nevertheless logically anyway.

[TCD]

I see. I know about counting the [a] tags up, but it confused me a bit in the example. Thanks for making that clear mai

[mai]

I think the renamers in the past had made no difference in renaming.
If no cracktro appears at startup, the game generally got [no cracktro] flag,
the renamer had not checked, if the cracktro is still on disk or not on disk anymore.

[mai]

I write it once again, if we choose the second solution:
[m cracktro removed]
[m cracktro disabled]
then there is no need for the [no cracktro] flag anymore, because
[m cracktro removed]
[m cracktro disabled]
replaces[no cracktro] flag in a more precise way,
but as i said this is a heavy change.

[mai]

just found out:

Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a2].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a3].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a4].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a5].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a6].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a7].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a8].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a9].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a10].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a11].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a12 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a13 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a14 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a15 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a16 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a17 no cracktro].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a18].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a19].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a20].adf
Alien Syndrome (1988)(ACE)[cr Champs][a21].adf

In this case there exists no cracktro, the original "Champs" cracked version
has no cracktro, a message is displayed at startup.
But for some renamers a cracktro and a message seems to be the same.
Also i found out, that on some of the games with "no cracktro" flag the message appears, like in the versions without "no cracktro" flag, renames fault!
Should a cracktro and a crackers message be the same for renaming purpose, or its better to use different discriptor?

[TCD]

Just a silly question, but does Alien Syndrome save the highscore to disk? It seems a bit like it does
I know waht you mean with the startup text or ASCII art vs. a real coded intro. It would mean to check each game to make a difference between these two. Not a bad idea, but I would like to know what [idoru] thinks about it first

[mai]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Just a silly question, but does Alien Syndrome save the highscore to disk? It seems a bit like it does
I know waht you mean with the startup text or ASCII art vs. a real coded intro. It would mean to check each game to make a difference between these two. Not a bad idea, but I would like to know what [idoru] thinks about it first

Exact, anything is saved to disk, thats because you have many alternative versions, immediately on startup you get the message to remove write protection.
I dont like many alternative version, seems to be all the same, probably different Highscores, in this case 20. ....only my opinion.
@[IDORU] Now it should your turn.