Changing 68040 25 to 68040 33 on 603e plus

[Jpor]

Hi all,

So I’m looking to upgrade a Phase 5 603e plus 68040/PPC card from the bog standard 68040 25 MHz CPU that’s on the card to a 33 MHZ CPU.
So what I think I can do is swap the 50 MHZ Oscillator for a 66 MHZ one and the CPU (25mhz) to the new 33mhz one.
Now considering this card also houses a built in SCSI adapter I cannot see any issues here as I’m not increasing the clock on the board beyond the theoretical limit of 66mhz.
I couldn’t see any threads on here about upgrading a 603e in this manner and every search on Google mentions phase 5 releasing a 68040 603e version at 25mhz only.
Oh yes I know you can upgrade these cards to an 060 and it probably only give me a small speed advantage if the 68040 can be upped. But hey I’ve got a spare 33mhz 68040 so why not give it a try?

Thoughts etc?

Cheers.

[alexh]

It is such an expensive card. And most 040's run so very very hot. I don't think I'd bother if it risked breaking the card.

Save up for the 060 conversion.

Out of interest what mask versions do you have on your 040's? (It is some of the the digits written in the top corner)

Later mask set 040's (e.g. L88M) run much cooler.

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by alexh

It is such an expensive card. And most 040's run so very very hot. I don't think I'd bother if it risked breaking the card.

Save up for the 060 conversion.

Out of interest what mask versions do you have on your 040's? (It is some of the the digits written in the top corner)

Later mask set 040's (e.g. L88M) run much cooler.

Don’t have the one to hand on the 25mhz one but on the 33mhz one I’ve got the following written on it:

XC68040RC33M

Top right corner;

02E31F
QEWC93398
MALAYSIA

[alexh]

E31F that's one of the first 0.8um ones so will run hot

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=223431&postcount=2

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by alexh

E31F that's one of the first 0.8um ones so will run hot

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=223431&postcount=2

I am planning on putting a heatsink and fan on it

[Kin Hell]

Alternatively....

Upgrading an 040 to an 060:

Both the Cyberstorm PPC and the Cyberstorm MKIII boards allow the use of either a 68060 or a 68040 processor. Both processors are quite similar, with the exception that the 68060 runs on 3.3 volts instead of the 68040's 5 volts, and the 68040 uses a 2x clock signal instead of the 68060's 1x clock. The following outline shows how to upgrade a 25MHz 68040 board to a 50MHz 68060. Note that I have not actually tried this myself - I do not have an 040 chip!

1: Install the appropriate 68060 libraries. Copy both the 68060.library and the 68040dummy.library into SYS:LIBS. Delete (or remove) the existing 68040.library, then rename the 68040dummy.library to 68040.library. When finished, power down the Amiga.

2: Carefully remove the 68040 chip by gently levering it up with a small screwdriver. Avoid bending the pins.

3: Locate the voltage select jumper, in the centre of the 68040 socket. Move it to the 3.3 volt position by careful soldering. (see above).

4: Move Jumper No 5 (see above) to the 68060 default position.

5: Install the 68060 chip into the socket.

From here: Linky I can confirm it works, is a lot faster & cooler .

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Alternatively....



From here: Linky I can confirm it works, is a lot faster & cooler .

Okay. But mine is a A1200 Blizzard 603e 040/PPC card and not a A3000/4000 Cyberstorm card.

As I’ve explained I’m not after upgrading to an 060 from an 040, just looking to get a small upgrade speed with a spare 040

[grelbfarlk]

It's kind of inconceivable to me that someone wants to monkey around with replacing an 25MHz 040 with a 33MHz 040 which is going to run even hotter when the 060 upgrade is available on a BlizzardPPC. That being said I have a couplefew 40MHz 040s from Warpengines I upgraded to 060 that I should sell, and they are at least the MC revision which don't run as terribly hot as the XC version.
In conclusion 68ks are a land of contrasts.

[Kin Hell]

Originally Posted by Jpor

Okay. But mine is a A1200 Blizzard 603e 040/PPC card and not a A3000/4000 Cyberstorm card.

As I’ve explained I’m not after upgrading to an 060 from an 040, just looking to get a small upgrade speed with a spare 040

LOL! - Had another blonde moment there didn't I. It's definitely summat to with getting 0ld0r....

However, take heed.

Whilst it might appear to be just a case of you swapping the CPU for the Faster part & change the relevant X-Tal to run the 040 @ it's suggested speed, it's not because of several factors.

I'd leave the 50Mhz X-Tal alone. That X-Tal plus a selection of soldered resistors give the PPC Chip is Multiplier & resultant CPU Speed. You could fry the PPC Chip if you do this by clocking it beyond a safe frequency..

As you have the + version, she has on board SCSI II. Most SCSI controllers don't like being overclocked. - If I understand correctly, overclocking from 25Mhz to 33Mhz will also overclock the SCSI Bus on these cards as well. Even if it appears to work without issue, over use & time, she just might loose her magic smoke because you fried the SCSI Logic too.

A 33Mhz 040 should give you around 23 MIPS over an 040 @ 25Mhz yielding approximately 19 MIPS. - 4 Million Instructions a Second more is not to be sniffed at when you're chugging away @ 19, but as already mentioned, is it worth the risk?

A dead 4 MIPS faster board is not worth as much as an original working board. For the small increase in performance in this Day & Age, I'd leave it alone.

At worst, swap it for a Newer part & run cooler at the same speed.

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

LOL! - Had another blonde moment there didn't I. It's definitely summat to with getting 0ld0r....

However, take heed.

Whilst it might appear to be just a case of you swapping the CPU for the Faster part & change the relevant X-Tal to run the 040 @ it's suggested speed, it's not because of several factors.

I'd leave the 50Mhz X-Tal alone. That X-Tal plus a selection of soldered resistors give the PPC Chip is Multiplier & resultant CPU Speed. You could fry the PPC Chip if you do this by clocking it beyond a safe frequency..

As you have the + version, she has on board SCSI II. Most SCSI controllers don't like being overclocked. - If I understand correctly, overclocking from 25Mhz to 33Mhz will also overclock the SCSI Bus on these cards as well. Even if it appears to work without issue, over use & time, she just might loose her magic smoke because you fried the SCSI Logic too.

A 33Mhz 040 should give you around 23 MIPS over an 040 @ 25Mhz yielding approximately 19 MIPS. - 4 Million Instructions a Second more is not to be sniffed at when you're chugging away @ 19, but as already mentioned, is it worth the risk?

A dead 4 MIPS faster board is not worth as much as an original working board. For the small increase in performance in this Day & Age, I'd leave it alone.

At worst, swap it for a Newer part & run cooler at the same speed.

Thanks for the advice

I’m just wondering though how the 603e + with the 060 and overclocked boards cope when the 060 is overclocked to 66mhz? From your explanation above this shouldn’t be done either?

[alexh]

The BPPC has an option to have two oscillators and clock the 680x0 separately from the PPC. You'd definitely want to use this. Google for the details

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by alexh

The BPPC has an option to have two oscillators and clock the 680x0 separately from the PPC. You'd definitely want to use this. Google for the details

That’s what I thought. Mine has 2 oscillators @ 50mhz top one I believe is the one used for the 040 CPU whilst bottom for the PPC.
I’m still tempted to overclocked the top with a 66mhz one and replace the 25mhz 040 with the 33mhz 040 that way it’s running to the clock on the CPU.
I’ve owned a couple of stanchu100 BPPC + cards with 060’s and PPCs clocked at 66.6mhz and they had no issues.
Unfortunately due to Brexit and the crap I’ve just gone through attempting to send something to Poland recently, I’m now getting things returned back to me after taking a failed trip to Polish customs with UPS for nearly 2 months
With no one here in the U.K doing this stuff then it’s something I’m considering.

[Kin Hell]

Originally Posted by Jpor

Thanks for the advice

I’m just wondering though how the 603e + with the 060 and overclocked boards cope when the 060 is overclocked to 66mhz? From your explanation above this shouldn’t be done either?

Read closely here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/amiga.html

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Read closely here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/amiga.html

Thanks

[Jpor]

Well. I thought I’d best update this thread.
So long story short; The 040 25mhz and XTAL were soldered to the board. So I left the 040 25 in and removed the original 50 MHz and put in some XTAL removable posts.
I have now fitted a 66mhz XTAL as well as a good heatsink on the CPU.
So far so good. The 603e appears to be working fine including the built in SCSI.
Benchmarking with sysinfo shows I’m 1.33 times faster than a 25mhz stock 040.
SCSI seems to have improved? The system appears to be slightly quicker and snappy, but this could be psychological.

[Pollock]

Originally Posted by Jpor

Well. I thought I’d best update this thread.
So long story short; The 040 25mhz and XTAL were soldered to the board. So I left the 040 25 in and removed the original 50 MHz and put in some XTAL removable posts.
I have now fitted a 66mhz XTAL as well as a good heatsink on the CPU.
So far so good. The 603e appears to be working fine including the built in SCSI.
Benchmarking with sysinfo shows I’m 1.33 times faster than a 25mhz stock 040.
SCSI seems to have improved? The system appears to be slightly quicker and snappy, but this could be psychological.

It's not in your head. it's quicker. well done

The 040 gets a REALLY bad press, mostly from people hearing urban myths and rumours. Yes, it runs hotter than an 060, it would do at 5V. But this is easily tamed with some cooling, It's all about the mask, i have seen 040's that run cooler than 060's, although yours is an earlier mask, and will run toasty, but it's going fine for you. imagine that eh?

I have a full fat 040 in a spare card here, a 40Mhz part, that gets just under 30,000 in sysinfo.

enjoy your mod

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by Pollock

It's not in your head. it's quicker. well done

The 040 gets a REALLY bad press, mostly from people hearing urban myths and rumours. Yes, it runs hotter than an 060, it would do at 5V. But this is easily tamed with some cooling, It's all about the mask, i have seen 040's that run cooler than 060's, although yours is an earlier mask, and will run toasty, but it's going fine for you. imagine that eh?

I have a full fat 040 in a spare card here, a 40Mhz part, that gets just under 30,000 in sysinfo.

enjoy your mod

Cheers Bud

[grelbfarlk]

Isn't the concern that clocking the 040 (or 060) at 33MHz is also clocking the SCSI chip and custom logic of the board too?

[Pollock]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Isn't the concern that clocking the 040 (or 060) at 33MHz is also clocking the SCSI chip and custom logic of the board too?

yes, you're correct usually the logic clue and SCSI controller are the first things to fall over.

as long as it boots ok, and runs ok, there should be no issue, it's only an 8mhz overclock, he should be fine

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Isn't the concern that clocking the 040 (or 060) at 33MHz is also clocking the SCSI chip and custom logic of the board too?

One of things I considered before doing the overclock. Have had a couple of BPPC cards and 1260/1230 cards with MKIV SCSI add-ons.

Up to now the threshold on the clock is 66mhz. The 040 appears to half the clock down for the CPU. So it was running a 50Mhz XTAL (CPU ran @25 MHz stock).
Now I have added a 66Mhz XTAL (CPU running now @33 MHz).
I’ve ran the system like this with the G-REX Bolt on for a good few hours and so far so good. SCSI part runs fine.
I’m using 66mhz XTALs on a Blizzard 1260 with the MKIV SCSI and again no issue. Anything over the 66mhz and you are asking for issues. Tried a 75mhz on a 1260 with SCSI and that didn’t go well, with lock ups and weirdness. One of the weirdness being you loose half the FastRAM as it’s no longer detected off the MKIV SCSI card.

You can also overclock the 1230 Blizzard board to 60mhz, but the SCSI portion using a MKIV card becomes none functional.

You’ve got to try these things