This one's really got me stumped

[malko]

As usual, I like to read the threads here.

Recently there has been several 'boring' posts between people arguing each others about how they felt things and reacted to them or to what the preopinant said, or believe it was said, etc...

We all know :

Originally Posted by Bernard Werber

Between what I think, what I want to say, what I believe I say, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe to hear, what you hear, what you want to understand, what you think you understand, what you understand...They are ten possibilities that we might have some problem communicating. But let's try anyway...

Bernard Werber is a really good FR writer if you don't know him.

Usually everything is fine and the storm does not last for long (maybe a few pages).

What really got me stumped this time is that I just noticed this :


I said to myself : "Hummm, a bit strong as he initially only voiced an opinion, but so be it. For sure it's not for a long time."
Both involved in the argument were wrong as this discussion should never ever have been raised in a thread (but in PM), so they were at the end (to quote them - if I recall correctly) stubborn.

The problem is that it does not seems to be the same rule for everybody as the status of the other person involved in the arguing, is normal.
And of course, a clean up has been done. So no evidences left...

Well I know for sure that some moderator(s) will feel titillated by my words but... damn, warn them both, 'punish' them both or none of them because they were both like kids in kindergarten...

By punishing only one you give a really bad message. And force me to write this post.
It's not because everything happened in the thread opened by the other person involved that it absolves him from his replies (especially the first one that lighted the fire) and inability to have kept the exchange healthy.

Originally Posted by BippyM

[...] I have cleaned this thread up now. Everyone keep it on topic please.

[acidbottle]

I was reading this curfuffle earlier, both giving as good as they got but I hate to see ill temper in a community as small as ours.

My 2 cents would be to unban him and give a strong warning that whomever bites next time is banned for a month. To be fair to Mcgeezer, Damien had trolled his thread, this seemed to bring up some history.

[jotd]

I flagged the thread twice. I can witness that the arguments were becoming nasty. Shame as I reckon that DamienD and McGeezer met in London some months ago for a beer or something (well then maybe it was years ago)...

I'm not taking sides, but if I must I'm taking the side of the person who honestly tries to get some info on what game to do next

[DDNI]

Missed this kerfuffle. Ah well.

Do Wonderboy

[malko]

I am not taking side as well, this is why I think there is an inequity in the treatment of both person involved in these exchanges.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by malko

I am not taking side as well, this is why I think there is an inequity in the treatment of both person involved in these exchanges.

While on the surface I can see why you might believe that, do bear in mind that your assessment is based purely on what was said publicly - we don't know what was said privately between the disputing parties and the moderation team.

What I do know is that I don't envy the moderators their task in the slightest. It's always sad when disputes arise between valued members of our community, and having to take action in such cases is a truly thankless task.

I really hope cooler heads will prevail and this will be forgotten soon.

[malko]

Originally Posted by robinsonb5

[...] bear in mind that your assessment is based purely on what was said publicly [...]

Thank you for validating that I am basing myself on proven exchanges. It would be really silly to draw conclusions based on suppositions, won't it ? .

Originally Posted by robinsonb5

[...] I really hope cooler heads will prevail and this will be forgotten soon.

May you be heard. In the meantime I hope equity will prevail.

[Pyromania]

I don't believe that DamienD is banned.

[Retro-Nerd]

A shame what happend here tonight. And i don't mean this public thread alone. Yes, some things happend later then. But we are all grown man. And that includes everyone. Damien is out for good, as he told me. Calling him a troll or worse (in public or not) is plain shit. Heated things explodes sometimes, happens to everyone. Seen this often enough on EAB. But i thought we'd overcome this kind of issues by now. But it seems not the case.

[BippyM]

I haven't read all of this yet but a banning isn't always directly related to just the post that people. See and assume, so let's not eh. There have been other issues with DamienD in the past that you are not privvy to. I didn't announce DamienD being banned nor would I announce if I were to give you or anyone else a warning, ban etc.

As moderators we try to keep an eye on the behaviour of members and a lot of the time that behaviour including posts is kept an eye on. When someone steps over that threshold they might be banned.

Let's stop making assumptions about things you clearly have no understanding of, other than the most recent incident which is fresh in your minds.

With the "cleanup" again you have no idea. The posts are still there, they have been removed from public view. Moderators can still view them.

Anyone else wants to discuss this feel free to private message myself, any other gm or rck

Ps.. DamienD has received a short ban. He is fully aware of the reasons for the ban, whether he agrees or not, I have told him what has led to this..

[Retro-Nerd]

Sure, we don't know everything what happend. But i noticed a mood shift against him the last few month. About the time he lost his s-mod powers. The ban can't be related to the Amiga ports thread, that was just annoying bickering between two grown-ups, nothing else. So yes, something happend later via social media as it seems. And there was no way to de-escalate things? I find this hard to believe, Bippy.

For gods sake: you and the whole EAB team, know him more than 15 years. Your diplomatic answer seems a bit flat for me. It not that Graeme or other members didn't do embarrassing things in the last 1-2 years (more than once).

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Sure, we don't know everything what happend. But i noticed a mood shift against him the last few month. About the time he lost his s-mod powers.

You don't know why he was banned, I am not going to tell you, but when he returns DamienD can inform you of why he was banned. The mood change you talk about is the mood change DamienD created himself when he stopped being a mod, again the reasons for this I am sure he will tell you if you ask him.

The ban can't be related to the Amiga ports thread, that was just annoying bickering between two grown-ups, nothing else.

This ban is directly related to that thread, but not the sole reason. As I have said above there are other instances, and no I am not going to divulge them to you or anyone else. DamienD can if he wants to

So yes, something happend later via social media as it seems. And there was no way to de-escalate things? I find this hard to believe, Bippy.

erm.. Where have I mentioned social media? I don't think I did, so stop making shit up. There is no need for it.

For gods sake: you and the whole EAB team, know him more than 15 years.

Correct which why he wasn't banned previously for another argument/troll/fight that he wouldn't let go despite being asked to repeatedly. Again you don't know everythig so let's stop speculating please.

Your diplomatic answer seems a bit flat for me.

Sorry, this isn't a democracy. As mods and gms we have a job to do, and I am afraid that our decisions are not always going to be appreciated by everyone. DamienD has received a short ban. He knows why, end of discussion.

It not that Graeme or other members didn't do embarrassing things in the last 1-2 years (more than once).

Correct, lots of members do embarrasing things, myself included and if we don't listen when warned or advised, expect a ban. That goes for me as well as every other member. I am not above the rules of this forum, and neither is anyone else including mcgeezer and DamienD

[Retro-Nerd]

erm.. Where have I mentioned social media? I don't think I did, so stop making shit up. There is no need for it.

Because he said that you and Graeme had a fight with him last night over What's App. Or do you say he lied in the face to me? Why should he do that?

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Because he said that you and Graeme had a fight last night over What's App. Or do you say he lied in the face to me? Why should he do that?

DamienD did have a discussion with me on whatsapp, instigated by him. He was aggressive in his messages, I was diplomatic and explanatory. This is when I explained the reason he received a SHORT ban. He then proceeded to ignore anything I had said, tell me to go fuck myself and accuse me of shit that is completely untrue. I could have banned him for longer but I understand he is angry, upset and despite what you and he thinks, I actually hold him in high regard. I took what he said with a pinch of salt. Despite what you think there is always more than just one persons side to something. Has DamienD lied to you?? I have no idea, has he told you the reason he received a ban? no idea, and if he did has he told you what I told him? again I have no idea. I cannot speak for DamienD, what I can do is bring up hundreds of posts where he has either trolled another member or engaged in a negative manner with various members and abused his position as a gm by threatening to ban users who didn't agree with his opinion. Now I have told all of this to Damien.


Has he accused me of things that are blatantly ridiculous. Yes he did this via whatsapp, and he could not support what he has said.. Why because it is untrtue.


Whatsapp is also not social media. It is a person to person messaging app (in this instance) and I also clearly told DamienD in his ban message to not contact me outside of the eab over this and we would discuss via PM on his return. He proceeded to ignore that


So when you and any other member has finished, get off your high horse because you don't have all the facts and stop making assumptions.

[Retro-Nerd]

I'm not discussing if What's App is social media or not. Seems a bit silly for me, because all things considered it actually can be called that too.

Your tone strikes me a bit pissed (i get that), even arrogant at this point. No one is blaming you for something. I know his stubborn and sometimes aggressive "phases". But i guess it could have been handled better. That's all what i' saying to that matter. Obviously it's a lost case now.

I cannot speak for DamienD, what I can do is bring up hundreds of posts where he has either trolled another member or engaged in a negative manner with various members and abused his position as a gm by threatening to ban users who didn't agree with his opinion. Now I have told all of this to Damien.

Sure, he was nasty at times. But most of them he banned or threatend to ban deserved that too, 100%. Could probably show you hundreds of posts too where he tried to stay reasonable, but had to eat shit from real troll "members", and got triggered. They knew which buttons they had to push. So, yes. There is more than black and white" to that too. His biggest mistake was he got too involved in all the mod duties and burned out. He seems a bit frustated. The way he lost his s-mod power wasn' the most elegant action from the the EAB team either. Doesn't matter if you agree to that or not. This grudge between him an Graeme runs a few month now.

[BippyM]

Like i have said above, I respect Damien but he isn't above the rules. This isn't just an isolated instance, this was the final straw.


He did burn out, and my hope was he would go away, energise and come back fresh faced and raring to go.. Sadly that hasn't happened yet.


I also am not pissed off, my tone is factual of what has happened without giving all details. I more disappointed in all honesty

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I'm not discussing if What's App is social media or not. Seems a bit silly for me, because all things considered it actually can be called that too.

Your tone strikes me a bit pissed (i get that), even arrogant at this point. No one is blaming you for something. I know his stubborn and sometimes aggressive "phases". But i guess it could have been handled better. That's all what i' saying to that matter. Obviously it's a lost case now.



Sure, he was nasty at times. But most of them he banned or threatend to ban deserved that too, 100%. Could probably show you hundreds of posts too where he tried to stay reasonable, but had to eat shit from real troll "members", and got triggered. They knew which buttons they had to push. So, yes. There is more than black and white" to that too. His biggest mistake was he got too involved in all the mod duties and burned out. He seems a bit frustated. The way he lost his s-mod power wasn' the most elegant action from the the EAB team either. Doesn't matter if you agree to that or not. This grudge between him an Graeme runs a few month now.

[malko]

@Retro-Nerd : I second your analysis.

[jotd]

Being a moderator at stackoverflow (where we also saw former mods going berzerk and ended up banned or self-deleting their accounts) I fully understand BippyM stance.

And he disclosed the private conversation he had with DamienD, and also globally why he was banned (I myself noticed the change of behaviour, the trolling with whdload, arcade ports, and generally not-so-nice behaviour), but doing that he did you a favor. In general moderators don't disclose why users were banned.

In stackoverflow (or meta) someone who posts something like "why this user was banned" receives post closure or deletion. So EAB is rather transparent after all.

[meynaf]

I am really sad that shit happened. I consider Damien as a friend. Hopefully it is not permanent ban.
Not knowing the facts, I cannot judge.
At least, this sends the message that nobody is above the rules, which i suppose is a good thing.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by malko

@Retro-Nerd : I second your analysis.

It's a good job yours and any other members analysis is pointless isn't it.



Let me explain this, for the last time in a way you can understand.



Imagine a bucket. This bucket can only hold so much water. Each time a member does something silly it goes into this bucket. Sooner or later the bucket is going to overflow. This happened to Damien, and instead of sending him packing his mod status was removed to allow him time to recuperate. This allowed more space in his bucket. Damien though continued with his little remarks, his goading and posting to bait other members. . Again his bucket overflowed. He has now received a ban, and allowed some more space in his bucket.



Now I am not going to explain this to you again. This is not black and white so please stop posting bollox because you're starting to annoy me. If you have an issue with this please pm me. Thank you