Double Dragon - Arcade port in C - Page 8

mcgeezer · 19 November 2021, 22:46

Require aga, it wont be less thought of.

The guts of recreating this game is in replicating the gameplay so spend time doing that instead of worrying about memory constraints.

saimon69 · 19 November 2021, 23:15

AND its sequel and third game running mostly flawlessly on base A500 -_-
I personally feel we gotta start to think at ports like in the 80s again - possibly like Ronald Pieket Wesserit

mcgeezer · 19 November 2021, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69

AND its sequel and third game running mostly flawlessly on base A500 -_-
I personally feel we gotta start to think at ports like in the 80s again - possibly like Ronald Pieket Wesserit

Great! Show me/us the money.

saimon69 · 20 November 2021, 05:00

Darn -_- Better pose this question in five years hoping there will be some ROI by then...

dlfrsilver · 20 November 2021, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

can you climb the ladders too? that adds more frames.

Seriously don't remove Linda just to fit in 512k chip. Just require 1MB chip.

exactly, i think the same. honestly, i don't understand that, why doing it like in the 80's when memory was expensive, when today it's nothing, we have accelerator and hard drives ?

U.S.Gold was really the example to not follow, why replicating what they did ?

dlfrsilver · 20 November 2021, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Require aga, it wont be less thought of.

The guts of recreating this game is in replicating the gameplay so spend time doing that instead of worrying about memory constraints.

I think the same. Or at least, raise the memory requirements to keep the game intact.

Interceptor · 20 November 2021, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Require aga, it wont be less thought of.

The guts of recreating this game is in replicating the gameplay so spend time doing that instead of worrying about memory constraints.

I think the same. Or at least, raise the memory requirements to keep the game intact.

I'm not suggesting this is wrong in anyway, I'm just offering another opinion to the OP.

Keeping this non-AGA would make the game a unique version of DD with its own quirks and look, which is perhaps more interesting than just a perfect replication.

This is not what I would have been thinking back in the day of course, but those times are gone, we have access to the original games whenever we want now.

dlfrsilver · 20 November 2021, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interceptor

I'm not suggesting this is wrong in anyway, I'm just offering another opinion to the OP.

Keeping this non-AGA would make the game a unique version of DD with its own quirks and look, which is perhaps more interesting than just a perfect replication.

This is not what I would have been thinking back in the day of course, but those times are gone, we have access to the original games whenever we want now.

we have already Richard Aplin A500 version of DD & DDII.

rothers · 20 November 2021, 16:23

Please don't go only AGA, I'm loving these A500 games pushing the system to show what it could do. I'd rather it required 1.5MB RAM which was perfectly possible on that chipset, even common with people who upgraded.

jotd · 20 November 2021, 18:26

AGA isn't needed, 1MB chip ECS would match a lot of machines (A600, A500+...). Why not trying to see if you have enough memory for extra characters, and if you don't, replace the character by the closest generic goon that you have in memory?

changes the game difficulty slightly but is close. Take Skidmarks for instance: you can select different cars if you have enough memory, else you're stuck with only one model.

For my Pacman remakes, I first used sampled sound for music, at this point it used 1MB chip, then no9 (eab member) created music modules and I could reduce to 512k chip.

I'd start without too many constraints, then try to shoehorn the game in a A500 for a challenge.

mcgeezer · 20 November 2021, 19:02

Yeah, to be clear... don't use the AGA chip set... What I meant was that just go with a config that requires the amount of chip ram required.

lmimmfn · 21 November 2021, 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Require aga, it wont be less thought of.

The guts of recreating this game is in replicating the gameplay so spend time doing that instead of worrying about memory constraints.

I agree, get it working on AGA and if theres time scale it back/optimize it, the gameplay will be the hardest part!

Mixel · 21 November 2021, 04:46

^ the other plus of making it for 2MB chip is .. Scorpion is steadily getting better at low end hardware. If you optimise it for the low end now, you may be preemptively gimping your game a bit as further optimisations come down the line. Imo it’s easier to prune and optimise downwards once it’s all in place than start way down and tweak upwards.

One example being the asset pack stuff for sprites/bobs .. Eventually we should be able to load subsets of those graphics rather than “it’s loaded all the time/it loads on one specific level” - Earok’s mentioned it - so assuming this is coming, it could save sooo much ram on some games, so trying to cram everything in using scorpion now isn’t representative of what it’ll be like in say, a year. (Or however long it takes to add, no pressure, haha)

I’d love to see someone other than me target 2Chip/1fast/020 then massage it down to lower spec once the core game is done, partly as I can learn from the optimisations they eventually use.

- When I did an initial pass of a “no fastram” demo, I scaled back some stuff I [i]know[/] I won’t have to by the end.

malko · 21 November 2021, 14:11

Again an ECS vs AGA argument... do people not have anything else to do ?

jotd · 21 November 2021, 14:47

malko we're trying to avoid a cut down version when a 1:1 version is possible with minimal specs.

2MB ram (base A1200 or A600) is not a problem. The problem would be needing PPC/64MB RAM that would be ludicrious.

dlfrsilver · 21 November 2021, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko

Again an ECS vs AGA argument... do people not have anything else to do ?

For those who want to play Double Dragon I/II you have Rich Aplin version.

If 1mb of chip is not enough, then a superior config has to be used.

Either A500+/A600 with 2mb chip or AGA.

Or, other solution, make a top version for AGA, then degrade for ECS.

jotd · 21 November 2021, 18:24

I remember being impressed by Mr Aplin DD II, not that much by the first opus.

but he was using no engine, and is someone who was working full time on that and knew his trade better than most of us.

So I think that a bit of slack CPU/RAM would be welcome at least in the first place.

dlfrsilver · 21 November 2021, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

I remember being impressed by Mr Aplin DD II, not that much by the first opus.

but he was using no engine, and is someone who was working full time on that and knew his trade better than most of us.

So I think that a bit of slack CPU/RAM would be welcome at least in the first place.

yes. Just to illustrate my point, if Double Dragon arcade was ported on X68000 for example, it would need 2mb of ram, pure and simple.

saimon69 · 21 November 2021, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko

Again an ECS vs AGA argument... do people not have anything else to do ?

Think at Dread, in which machine would look more incredible?

malko · 22 November 2021, 09:00

Recently almost all games' thread have had pages filled with OCS/ECS vs AGA arguments.
Dread, Robocop, Double Dragon, etc.

It's up to the coder/team behing the game to decide which machine is the target. Which "sacrifices" will be made to fulfill the goal.

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19 November 2021, 22:46	#141
mcgeezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sunderland, England Posts: 2,702	Require aga, it wont be less thought of. The guts of recreating this game is in replicating the gameplay so spend time doing that instead of worrying about memory constraints.

19 November 2021, 23:15	#142
saimon69 J.M.D - Bedroom Musician Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 3,516	AND its sequel and third game running mostly flawlessly on base A500 -_- I personally feel we gotta start to think at ports like in the 80s again - possibly like Ronald Pieket Wesserit

20 November 2021, 05:00	#144
saimon69 J.M.D - Bedroom Musician Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 3,516	Darn -_- Better pose this question in five years hoping there will be some ROI by then...

20 November 2021, 16:23	#149
rothers Registered User Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: UK Posts: 487	Please don't go only AGA, I'm loving these A500 games pushing the system to show what it could do. I'd rather it required 1.5MB RAM which was perfectly possible on that chipset, even common with people who upgraded.

20 November 2021, 18:26	#150
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	AGA isn't needed, 1MB chip ECS would match a lot of machines (A600, A500+...). Why not trying to see if you have enough memory for extra characters, and if you don't, replace the character by the closest generic goon that you have in memory? changes the game difficulty slightly but is close. Take Skidmarks for instance: you can select different cars if you have enough memory, else you're stuck with only one model. For my Pacman remakes, I first used sampled sound for music, at this point it used 1MB chip, then no9 (eab member) created music modules and I could reduce to 512k chip. I'd start without too many constraints, then try to shoehorn the game in a A500 for a challenge.

20 November 2021, 19:02	#151
mcgeezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sunderland, England Posts: 2,702	Yeah, to be clear... don't use the AGA chip set... What I meant was that just go with a config that requires the amount of chip ram required.

21 November 2021, 04:46	#153
Mixel Registered User Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 770	^ the other plus of making it for 2MB chip is .. Scorpion is steadily getting better at low end hardware. If you optimise it for the low end now, you may be preemptively gimping your game a bit as further optimisations come down the line. Imo it’s easier to prune and optimise downwards once it’s all in place than start way down and tweak upwards. One example being the asset pack stuff for sprites/bobs .. Eventually we should be able to load subsets of those graphics rather than “it’s loaded all the time/it loads on one specific level” - Earok’s mentioned it - so assuming this is coming, it could save sooo much ram on some games, so trying to cram everything in using scorpion now isn’t representative of what it’ll be like in say, a year. (Or however long it takes to add, no pressure, haha) I’d love to see someone other than me target 2Chip/1fast/020 then massage it down to lower spec once the core game is done, partly as I can learn from the optimisations they eventually use. - When I did an initial pass of a “no fastram” demo, I scaled back some stuff I [i]know[/] I won’t have to by the end.

21 November 2021, 14:11	#154
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,856	Again an ECS vs AGA argument... do people not have anything else to do ?

21 November 2021, 14:47	#155
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	malko we're trying to avoid a cut down version when a 1:1 version is possible with minimal specs. 2MB ram (base A1200 or A600) is not a problem. The problem would be needing PPC/64MB RAM that would be ludicrious.

21 November 2021, 18:24	#157
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	I remember being impressed by Mr Aplin DD II, not that much by the first opus. but he was using no engine, and is someone who was working full time on that and knew his trade better than most of us. So I think that a bit of slack CPU/RAM would be welcome at least in the first place.

22 November 2021, 09:00	#160
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,856	Recently almost all games' thread have had pages filled with OCS/ECS vs AGA arguments. Dread, Robocop, Double Dragon, etc. It's up to the coder/team behing the game to decide which machine is the target. Which "sacrifices" will be made to fulfill the goal.

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