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Old 16 October 2021, 06:55   #1
ahandyman59
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AmigaOS3.2 on A2000 with A2630 (030) CPU Board

I have an Amiga 2000 that I've used for years. Today I upgraded the kickstart from 3.1.4 to 3.2. Now every time it boots, it give me that irritating message about needing the 68030.library file. I dug out my library disk and copied the 68030.library file and the mmu.library files over to DH0evs and it still gives me that irritating error message. I have tried removing all 68k libraries. Tried copying the 68020.library file over and renaming it 68030.library. I have tried most combinations I can think of and the error won't go away and won't let the system start without something being done. It does say one possibility is to remove the cpu check from startup and use some utility to start the MMU stuff, but I don't know any command to start the mmu stuff. The library files I am using are those from the MMULib stuff on Aminet.

I'm starting to wonder if the old girl (a2000), with the A2630 accelerator board isn't able to deal with kickstart 3.2... Any ideas?

Last edited by ahandyman59; 16 October 2021 at 06:58. Reason: 060 in title is wrong...
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Old 16 October 2021, 10:56   #2
Thomas Richter
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Then you didn't install it properly. The installation procedure will copy everything into the right place, including those libraries. They need to go to LIBS:, and *removing* them is not going to help.

In other words, please use the Os installer. Failing that, copy them manually, but please in the right place. The right place is the LIBS directory of your boot disk.
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Old 16 October 2021, 14:29   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahandyman59 View Post
I'm starting to wonder if the old girl (a2000), with the A2630 accelerator board isn't able to deal with kickstart 3.2... Any ideas?
It appears to be a case of vice versa. If OS 3.2 can't "Deal" with your A2000/A2630 system without requiring you to install a 68030.library, then it's probably time to reconsider your decision to purchase this version.

You should question why all the Commodore versions (1.3-3.1), the H&P versions (3.5-3.9) and the Cloanto version (3.X) of Amiga OS can deal just fine with your system without this "New" requirement.

EDIT:
It is apparently possible to use OS 3.2 without having the 68030.library installed. See below.

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 16 October 2021 at 23:35. Reason: New detailed information was provided.
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Old 16 October 2021, 16:07   #4
Thomas Richter
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Originally Posted by SpeedGeek View Post
It appears to be a case of vice versa. If OS 3.2 can't "Deal" with your A2000/A2630 system without requiring you to install a 68030.library, then it's probably time to reconsider your decision to purchase this version.

You should question why all the Commodore versions (1.3-3.1), the H&P versions (3.5-3.9) and the Cloanto version (3.X) of Amiga OS can deal just fine with your system without this "New" requirement.

Stop the nonsense please. You know as well as I do what the library is good for, and that it's merrily a boot warning, and not a boot failure. If the OP had installed the system properly, everything would be fine. Yes, of course you can boot without the library, it's just not recommended because some setups then don't work. And, as you know of course, would not work either "out of the box" with Kick 3.1 or any other kickstart on the market.
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Old 16 October 2021, 16:27   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahandyman59 View Post
I have an Amiga 2000 that I've used for years. Today I upgraded the kickstart from 3.1.4 to 3.2. Now every time it boots, it give me that irritating message about needing the 68030.library file. I dug out my library disk and copied the 68030.library file and the mmu.library files over to DH0evs and it still gives me that irritating error message. I have tried removing all 68k libraries. Tried copying the 68020.library file over and renaming it 68030.library. I have tried most combinations I can think of and the error won't go away and won't let the system start without something being done. It does say one possibility is to remove the cpu check from startup and use some utility to start the MMU stuff, but I don't know any command to start the mmu stuff. The library files I am using are those from the MMULib stuff on Aminet.

I'm starting to wonder if the old girl (a2000), with the A2630 accelerator board isn't able to deal with kickstart 3.2... Any ideas?
Don't forget to also copy 680x0.library together with 68030.library and mmu.library to libs: folder.
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Old 16 October 2021, 18:58   #6
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Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
Stop the nonsense please. You know as well as I do what the library is good for, and that it's merrily a boot warning, and not a boot failure. If the OP had installed the system properly, everything would be fine. Yes, of course you can boot without the library, it's just not recommended because some setups then don't work. And, as you know of course, would not work either "out of the box" with Kick 3.1 or any other kickstart on the market.
What nonsense? The OP did not state that this was a boot warning, he stated he got an irritating message about "Needing" the 68030.library.

Your reply to the OP was to explain how to properly install the library, not to explain how to boot without it. Now, that this more detailed information was finally posted, I can use it to update my previous post.

So, because there are a few 030 systems which might not work out of the box, all of the 030 systems should now install a performance and memory reducing solution? Now, that's what I call nonsense.

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 17 October 2021 at 12:52.
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Old 16 October 2021, 19:23   #7
ahandyman59
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I went back and used the install again in MMULib and this time it apparently worked correctly. The system boots normally and all is good again. Problem solved.
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Old 17 October 2021, 13:38   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
Yes, of course you can boot without the library, it's just not recommended because some setups then don't work. And, as you know of course, would not work either "out of the box" with Kick 3.1 or any other kickstart on the market.

What similar setups wouldn't work out of the box with 3.1? I appreciate that's an open-ended question but I'm interested in understanding what you had in mind.
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Old 18 October 2021, 10:25   #9
Thomas Richter
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Bridge boards with a 68030 will hang, and some graphics cards, most notably the CVision3D, will not work reliable with a 68030. This goes down to a hardware defect of the 68030 which, despite having a "cache inhibit input" line, caches long-word aligned long word write accesses in its cache, regardless of whether the hardware asserts the line or not. Both the bridge board, and some graphics cards, have long-word aligned long word hardware read/write registers that would be cached erroneously.

The 68030.library fixes this, by enabling the MMU. Actually,the manuals of said bridge boards come with the recommendation to insert "Enforcer QUIET" into the startup-sequence, which did the same back then. However, the sole purpose of "Enforcer" was a somewhat different one, and it has been superseded a long time ago, and the bridge boards are not the only hardware that have trouble with the 030.
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Old 21 October 2021, 14:23   #10
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Oof that sounds like a nasty bug. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
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Old 21 October 2021, 16:44   #11
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Oof that sounds like a nasty bug. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
The limited explanation of the problem itself does not offer a satisfactory explanation of the solution provided. First, even though Enforcer was not specifically intended to fix BridgeBoard 030 systems, it worked well enough in that regard that Commodore found no reason to replace it.

I find claims that Enforcer was "Superseded A Long Time Ago" to be rather suspicious. If you want the latest version it's still available on Mike Sinz's website.

Enforcer has an important advantage over the library solution since it runs as an executable. This makes it possible to create a script to run Enforcer before the Janus software starts and also send Enforcer a break when the Janus software quits.

The other more important information about the performance penalties of the provided solution was conveniently omitted. While, it's not possible to provide exact detailed performance information. The following general example should suffice.

Generic 68030 system:

MMU enabled (LE config) = 30% performance loss

MMU enabled (ME config) = 20% performance loss

MMU enabled (HE config) = 10% performance loss

MMU disabled = 0% performance loss

LE = low efficiency, ME = medium efficiency, HE = high efficiency

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 21 October 2021 at 20:57.
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Old 07 November 2021, 05:23   #12
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In 3.5 years of Tech Support at GVP back in the day, the standard solution for BridgeCard enabling with A3001/Combo 030/G-Force boards (with MMUs) was:

1. In S:Startup-Sequence, modify the SetPatch command with 'NoCache' option to keep the data cache off initially.
- this will actually cause the OS 3.2 CPU Check command in S:Startup-Sequence to pass without error.
2. The call to Bindrivers to load the Janus driver for the Bridgecard (use 2.1, not the earlier offerings) out of sys:Expansion will now work. RTG software should also be started around this time.
3. Once you have all things operational, use the last SetCPU offering (v1.6) from Dave Haynie / AmiNet with the 'cache FastROM' options, and it works around both the CIIN issue and the BridgeCard's (or RTG's) shared memory problem, and remaps Kickstart to 32-bit RAM. Place it after the Binddrivers or RTG startup commands in s:Startup-sequence, or place it in S:User-Startup toward the end to be 'safe'.

This should work for C= A2630's with Full (non-EC) CPU, too. If your system is a bit more complex, I'll point you to the MuLibs package.

My original daily driver at GVP (before the A3000T w/GF040) was an A2000 w/030 and A2286 BridgeCard. The latter was for the DOS-based CRM software we used for call-tracking/case management. The Amiga and PC both had Ethernet networking, too.

This basic information (reworded slightly), and the MuLibs option, is mentioned in the CPU-FAQ.readme included with the OS 3.2 documentation in the FAQs folder of the OS 3.2 CD image. It's toward the bottom, under the 68030 section. I actually wrote that document.

Last edited by thebajaguy; 07 November 2021 at 05:44.
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Old 07 November 2021, 16:52   #13
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I agree that SetCPU is a practical option for BridgeBoard 030 systems with certain limitations. In particular, SetCPU was developed for OS 1.3-2.x systems and would only have some limited degree of compatibility with OS 3.x systems.

Another issue (not BridgeBoard related) is the possibility of supporting the few Zorro III I/O Boards which might need the CIIN feature/bug fix.

Enforcer, should be able to handle both of the above issues quite well since it's development continued long after the end of Commodore.

However, SetCPU does have the same advantage (as an executable) as noted above.

BTW, all of the options discussed thus far would qualify as "LE Config" MMU solutions noted above.

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 07 November 2021 at 20:47.
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