Max HD size usable with SurfSquirrel?

Doc Mindie · 11 April 2013, 12:00

I've been trawling the "tinterwebs all morning, just because I'm curious about the maximum size of HD I can use with the SurfSquirrel... but no luck so far, and the official docs I used to have some 10+years ago doesn't really mention anything about it either.

Would be fun to know what size the SurfSquirrel can (reliably) handle... any takers?

alexh · 11 April 2013, 15:50

It is a SCSI drive so uses commands such as READ(6) or READ(10). READ(6) has a 21-bit LBA which would limit you to 1GiB.

Google for squirrelscsi.device (it's driver) + SCSI Direct.

thomas · 11 April 2013, 15:55

If the driver supports HD_SCSICMD (a.k.a. Direct SCSI), the 1 GiB limit can be overridden by using a file system which uses Direct SCSI. This also overrides the 4 GiB limit.

alexh · 11 April 2013, 16:10

All I could find for you was :

# squirrel
#DEVICE squirrelscsi.device DEVICETYPE NSDEVTYPE_TRACKDISK COMMANDS 1-15,20-23,28 VERSION 37 REVISION 1765

thomas · 11 April 2013, 16:31

HD_SCSICMD is command 28. So it could work.

ptyerman · 11 April 2013, 17:54

I'm pretty sure I used a 4GB drive on my squirrel before, will have to check as I don't remember. I have a external SCSI enclosure that was fitted with a 1GB drive but now has a 4GB drive fitted, the part I don't remember for sure is if I actually used it with the Squirrel after fitting the 4GB drive. I will dig it out later and plug it in then let you know what the results are.

Doc Mindie · 11 April 2013, 18:09

Well, I'm using 2 4GB drives ATM, with no sideeffects... was just wondering if I could use bigger ones.

Obviously HDToolBox (WB3.1) complains about the 4GB and start saying negative size, but I've not come across any problems with either of the drives. Not yet, anyways

Just need to use SquirrelMount in the Startup to make them mounted... but the SCSI CD-ROM is working "perfectly" as expected

thomas · 11 April 2013, 18:18

To go above 4GB you need a new file system. FFS up to version 40 is not aware of the 4GB limit. If you use it to access larger drives you will suffer corrupted files or data loss sooner or later.

mark_k · 11 April 2013, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

It is a SCSI drive so uses commands such as READ(6) or READ(10). READ(6) has a 21-bit LBA which would limit you to 1GiB.

Does squirrelscsi.device only use READ(6) though? I would have thought it would support READ(10) too, so there would not be a 1GB limit due to that.

alexh · 11 April 2013, 18:41

I believe it depends how the authors of squirrelscsi.device implemented CMD_READ and CMD_WRITE etc.

Some other "scsi.device" drivers issue READ(6) for CMD_READ and CMD_WRITE, the A590 pre version 7 for example.

But as squirrelscsi.device appears to support SCSI_DIRECT, the level above the driver (filesystem?) will be able to form 10-byte commands.

ptyerman · 11 April 2013, 18:45

Confirmed, just plugged in my external SCSI drive which is 4GB and it works fine. I have remembered that the Squirrel will not accept SCSI 3 drives even with a active terminator on the chain, SCSI 1 and 2 drives are ok. I haven't tried anything bigger than 4GB on it as the only drives I have above 4GB are SCSI 3 or LVD. Best thing to do if you have a larger drive is plug it in and see.

Doc Mindie · 12 April 2013, 09:46

I don't have one at the moment... but mayhaps there's a 20GB SCSI-II drive on EGay or something...

Mainly I'm just curious as to what the biggest drive the SurfSquirrel can (safely) utilise, though... with a 2GB CF and 2*4GB SCSI HD's, I'm not in any immediate danger of running out of space, I think

Has anyone noticed how much "snappier" WB3.1 feels than Windows even on a fairly new PC? Or at least.. I feel working with the amiga feels more intuitive and "easier" than the Redmond infected PC does... hardware near enough 100 times faster, and the old Amiga still kicks backsides

(Sure, got a 68030/40 68882/40 and 32MB RAM, but still

ptyerman · 12 April 2013, 10:42

I did try a Seagate 9GB SCSI 3 with no joy some time ago, Squirrel HDtoolbox just threw a guru meditation while trying to read the drive configuration, (same drive works fine on my Blizzard SCSI). After that I swapped it for a 18GB LVD through an adapter but if I remember correctly it wasn't even recognised as connected although I know the drive is good. If I come across any larger SCSI 1 or 2 drives I will try them, or even SCSI 3 of a different make and model, it might just be that Seagate model it doesn't like.

11 April 2013, 12:00	#1
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Max HD size usable with SurfSquirrel? I've been trawling the "tinterwebs all morning, just because I'm curious about the maximum size of HD I can use with the SurfSquirrel... but no luck so far, and the official docs I used to have some 10+years ago doesn't really mention anything about it either. Would be fun to know what size the SurfSquirrel can (reliably) handle... any takers?

11 April 2013, 15:50	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	It is a SCSI drive so uses commands such as READ(6) or READ(10). READ(6) has a 21-bit LBA which would limit you to 1GiB. Google for squirrelscsi.device (it's driver) + SCSI Direct. Last edited by alexh; 11 April 2013 at 16:06.

11 April 2013, 18:41	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	I believe it depends how the authors of squirrelscsi.device implemented CMD_READ and CMD_WRITE etc. Some other "scsi.device" drivers issue READ(6) for CMD_READ and CMD_WRITE, the A590 pre version 7 for example. But as squirrelscsi.device appears to support SCSI_DIRECT, the level above the driver (filesystem?) will be able to form 10-byte commands. Last edited by alexh; 11 April 2013 at 18:51.

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11 April 2013, 15:55	#3
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,002	If the driver supports HD_SCSICMD (a.k.a. Direct SCSI), the 1 GiB limit can be overridden by using a file system which uses Direct SCSI. This also overrides the 4 GiB limit.

11 April 2013, 16:10	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	All I could find for you was : # squirrel #DEVICE squirrelscsi.device DEVICETYPE NSDEVTYPE_TRACKDISK COMMANDS 1-15,20-23,28 VERSION 37 REVISION 1765

11 April 2013, 16:31	#5
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,002	HD_SCSICMD is command 28. So it could work.

11 April 2013, 17:54	#6
ptyerman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Worksop/UK Age: 59 Posts: 1,328	I'm pretty sure I used a 4GB drive on my squirrel before, will have to check as I don't remember. I have a external SCSI enclosure that was fitted with a 1GB drive but now has a 4GB drive fitted, the part I don't remember for sure is if I actually used it with the Squirrel after fitting the 4GB drive. I will dig it out later and plug it in then let you know what the results are.

11 April 2013, 18:09	#7
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Well, I'm using 2 4GB drives ATM, with no sideeffects... was just wondering if I could use bigger ones. Obviously HDToolBox (WB3.1) complains about the 4GB and start saying negative size, but I've not come across any problems with either of the drives. Not yet, anyways Just need to use SquirrelMount in the Startup to make them mounted... but the SCSI CD-ROM is working "perfectly" as expected

11 April 2013, 18:18	#8
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,002	To go above 4GB you need a new file system. FFS up to version 40 is not aware of the 4GB limit. If you use it to access larger drives you will suffer corrupted files or data loss sooner or later.

11 April 2013, 18:45	#11
ptyerman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Worksop/UK Age: 59 Posts: 1,328	Confirmed, just plugged in my external SCSI drive which is 4GB and it works fine. I have remembered that the Squirrel will not accept SCSI 3 drives even with a active terminator on the chain, SCSI 1 and 2 drives are ok. I haven't tried anything bigger than 4GB on it as the only drives I have above 4GB are SCSI 3 or LVD. Best thing to do if you have a larger drive is plug it in and see.

12 April 2013, 09:46	#12
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	I don't have one at the moment... but mayhaps there's a 20GB SCSI-II drive on EGay or something... Mainly I'm just curious as to what the biggest drive the SurfSquirrel can (safely) utilise, though... with a 2GB CF and 2*4GB SCSI HD's, I'm not in any immediate danger of running out of space, I think Has anyone noticed how much "snappier" WB3.1 feels than Windows even on a fairly new PC? Or at least.. I feel working with the amiga feels more intuitive and "easier" than the Redmond infected PC does... hardware near enough 100 times faster, and the old Amiga still kicks backsides (Sure, got a 68030/40 68882/40 and 32MB RAM, but still

12 April 2013, 10:42	#13
ptyerman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Worksop/UK Age: 59 Posts: 1,328	I did try a Seagate 9GB SCSI 3 with no joy some time ago, Squirrel HDtoolbox just threw a guru meditation while trying to read the drive configuration, (same drive works fine on my Blizzard SCSI). After that I swapped it for a 18GB LVD through an adapter but if I remember correctly it wasn't even recognised as connected although I know the drive is good. If I come across any larger SCSI 1 or 2 drives I will try them, or even SCSI 3 of a different make and model, it might just be that Seagate model it doesn't like.

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