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Old 16 May 2021, 14:50   #1
Foebane
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This video would put ANY newcomer off of all Amiga Games

[ Show youtube player ]

Edited to remove my rant, I'm clearly in the minority.

Last edited by Foebane; 16 May 2021 at 20:45.
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Old 16 May 2021, 18:17   #2
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Yawn
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Old 16 May 2021, 18:53   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
most Amiga games suck balls
[...]
I just find Amiga games unplayable, boring, and repetitive.
[...]
Amiga games are overrated
*eyeroll.gif*
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Old 16 May 2021, 20:43   #4
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I just clicked into the timeline, and most games I saw looked actually quite nice and with a lot of charme.

On the contrary, no idea what appeals to you about the current demo scene. I just see the same few effects over and over, especially in AGA60 demos.

Things feel incredibly stale over there currently, imo. EON two years ago felt like a blip of fresh air, but otherwise no idea what you are talking about here.
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Old 16 May 2021, 20:54   #5
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
I just clicked into the timeline, and most games I saw looked actually quite nice and with a lot of charme.
What timeline? The video is an A-Z.

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On the contrary, no idea what appeals to you about the current demo scene. I just see the same few effects over and over, especially in AGA60 demos.
The music appeals to me, even if the effects are repetitive, sometimes.

Quote:
Things feel incredibly stale over there currently, imo. EON two years ago felt like a blip of fresh air, but otherwise no idea what you are talking about here.
Most Amiga demos impress me, much more than the games, at least. I guess it's all subjective.
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Old 16 May 2021, 21:15   #6
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Timeline of the video. Or how you call that thing where you can click to show the video at that point of time you want.

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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
Most Amiga demos impress me, much more than the games, at least. I guess it's all subjective.
But why?
Demos are a highly controlled scenario compared to games where you have to deal with user input, and are usually made up of look up tables that are prerendered in tools usually coded on a PC, doing effects that have been usually done better 30 years ago.

What's making it worse is, that in AGA60 demos the Amiga chipset isn't really used most of the time, and stuff gets rendered into a buffer that's translated via C2P in the end. The only reason I see that this category is still existing is, that it's kind of a protected niche so people there don't have to compete with the big guns in PC territory.

I concur that there are some nice tracker productions in demos, but so there are in modern Amiga games.

So yeah, I think what the Amiga demo scene puts out is vastly overblown and overhyped because of nostalgic reasons. With some notable exceptions, though.

I am a lot more impressed by what Metro Siege tries to accomplish than what I have seen over the last few years in Amiga demos on Revision and others. With the notable exception of EON, that is. Which, as Photon has stated, is basically a huge LUT. But I don't care, it looks, sounds amazing, and gives me the feels.
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Old 16 May 2021, 21:27   #7
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let's face it, most of pre 1990 games are crappy 16 color ST or C64 ports. They suck

It's like playing all music CDs in the world and saying that only a few are good. That's probably true

the video is interesting.Yes, there are a lot of crap titles. And only a few good ones, but those few, we're talking hundreds of them so that's already enough

And I must admit sometimes that the games I still play aren't many. Let's not make lists again, but I can't stand to play a lot of games that I could play 30 years ago. Even if they are "good". Just too bored for that.

Let's face it: there are no newcomers on the amiga machine. I mean: who on his/her twenties is going to get interested in the Amiga, Atari or other computer from 30 years ago just NOW?
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Old 16 May 2021, 21:35   #8
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Timeline of the video. Or how you call that thing where you can click to show the video at that point of time you want.
I always used to call them "progress sliders".

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But why? Demos are a highly controlled scenario compared to games where you have to deal with user input, and are usually made up of look up tables that are prerendered in tools usually coded on a PC, doing effects that have been usually done better 30 years ago.
True, and I can spot a mile off which logos are hand-drawn and which are simply processed images, but it's not just Amiga demos that are affected, I've seen several C64 demos that obviously look like they've been developed on PC tools, and no doubt other platforms too. I wouldn't say they don't put in the effort like they did in the past, they just do it differently. But most things are done on PC these days, anyway.

Quote:
What's making it worse is, that in AGA60 demos the Amiga chipset isn't really used most of the time, and stuff gets rendered into a buffer that's translated via C2P in the end. The only reason I see that this category is still existing is, that it's kind of a protected niche so people there don't have to compete with the big guns in PC territory.
I remember there was a big controversy when Amiga demos started looking like PC demos in the late 1990s, and a boycott by some groups of AGA when it came out. But the Amiga chipset is still used for some demos, and I've seen demos with detailed 3D objects and amazing Copper effects, and those C2P effects use sprites for the overlays.

Quote:
I concur that there are some nice tracker productions in demos, but so there are in modern Amiga games.
Oh, don't get me wrong, many tunes I heard in the video were quite catchy, and I have in the past collected Amiga games for the soundtracks alone, but for some works like Chris Huelsbeck, getting hold of the non-MOD formats is quite tough.

Quote:
So yeah, I think what the Amiga demo scene puts out is vastly overblown and overhyped because of nostalgic reasons. With some notable exceptions, though.
To each his own.

Quote:
I am a lot more impressed by what Metro Siege tries to accomplish than what I have seen over the last few years in Amiga demos on Revision and others. With the notable exception of EON, that is. Which, as Photon has stated, is basically a huge LUT. But I don't care, it looks, sounds amazing, and gives me the feels.
Imagine it done on AGA60, though(!)
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Old 16 May 2021, 21:40   #9
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let's face it, most of pre 1990 games are crappy 16 color ST or C64 ports. They suck

It's like playing all music CDs in the world and saying that only a few are good. That's probably true

the video is interesting.Yes, there are a lot of crap titles. And only a few good ones, but those few, we're talking hundreds of them so that's already enough
I recognise several public domain titles from that video, so non-commercial, and the quality control obviously wasn't there.

Quote:
And I must admit sometimes that the games I still play aren't many. Let's not make lists again, but I can't stand to play a lot of games that I could play 30 years ago. Even if they are "good". Just too bored for that.

Let's face it: there are no newcomers on the amiga machine. I mean: who on his/her twenties is going to get interested in the Amiga, Atari or other computer from 30 years ago just NOW?
Um, a retro gamer who hasn't tried them yet?
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Old 16 May 2021, 21:58   #10
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Watched just a little and saw a few I'd like to try so each to their own (and yes there was a lot of rubbish games).

Seems to me that it just all the whdload games as it seems to match my whload directory.
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Old 16 May 2021, 22:02   #11
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Watched just a little and saw a few I'd like to try so each to their own (and yes there was a lot of rubbish games).

Seems to me that it just all the whdload games as it seems to match my whload directory.
Yes, those are WHDLoad filenames. I wish they contained the release years of the games in the names, could put the whole quality changes aspect into perspective.
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Old 16 May 2021, 23:20   #12
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Yes, those are WHDLoad filenames. I wish they contained the release years of the games in the names, could put the whole quality changes aspect into perspective.
That would be a really good idea and must have taken a lot of time to put together!

7 hours is a bit much but watching it definitely will give you some games to try and not try!
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Old 16 May 2021, 23:23   #13
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I personally like the "exhaustive / no opinion" video. Of course 7:30' is a long time to view crap.

Thanks for sharing the video.

Last edited by jotd; 16 May 2021 at 23:34.
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Old 16 May 2021, 23:38   #14
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I personally like the "exhaustive / no opinion" video. Of course 7:30' is a long time to view crap.

Thanks for sharing the video.
Why did you delete your comment about hating cutesy games? Are you afraid you will be called out on it? I started a whole THREAD about it a couple of years ago and got roasted over the coals, because it seems people here LOVE "cutesy".
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Old 17 May 2021, 04:17   #15
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A great game will remain that and I'd say the Amiga definitely has games you can put into this category out of the many more that aren't so good of course. To be fair though it can be very hard to define exactly what great is but in the case of Speedball2 for example, this is greatness I think. Stunt car Racer obviously is and many more

The thing with the Amiga in particular I've always found is in it's atmosphere which you get with any device no doubt. But I just love that cozy warm surrounding feel from playing Amiga games and it's a reason to invest your time into the system for many. I wouldn't be surprised that new folk still are when they see these type videos
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Old 17 May 2021, 05:52   #16
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There are several diamonds in the rough, to be sure. But there's also a LOT of rough, too.
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Old 17 May 2021, 09:16   #17
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There are several diamonds in the rough, to be sure. But there's also a LOT of rough, too.
To be fair though - this true is of any computer system (maybe outside of Japan) as none of them had quality control and there was certainly a lot of dross on the pc. In fact, before the advent of graphics and sound cards for the masses, Amiga version of games was generally the best.
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Old 17 May 2021, 09:39   #18
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Sure there was a lot of terrible games released, but lets put it into perspective, every computer had this problem. The Amiga was one of the most popular computers to release games on, right up to Commodores demise so the library is larger than most for the time. It had the advantage of having capabilities other systems wish the had. For many of the games released on multiple platforms the Amiga had the best version available. I would say that some games that were passable on the Amiga were utter wrecks on other systems, so that brings up the average. I think why many games are considered bad was because the Amiga when used properly, raised the bar so much higher than other systems, and it's hard to keep making top tier games.
Recently I started looking at the PS3 game catalog so that I have a library of games to collect and what I found was a vast majority aren't worth my time. And lets not forget that this is a system that has Sony as it software curator determining what get released.
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Old 17 May 2021, 10:47   #19
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To be fair though - this true is of any computer system (maybe outside of Japan) as none of them had quality control and there was certainly a lot of dross on the pc. In fact, before the advent of graphics and sound cards for the masses, Amiga version of games was generally the best.
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Sure there was a lot of terrible games released, but lets put it into perspective, every computer had this problem. The Amiga was one of the most popular computers to release games on, right up to Commodores demise so the library is larger than most for the time. It had the advantage of having capabilities other systems wish the had. For many of the games released on multiple platforms the Amiga had the best version available. I would say that some games that were passable on the Amiga were utter wrecks on other systems, so that brings up the average. I think why many games are considered bad was because the Amiga when used properly, raised the bar so much higher than other systems, and it's hard to keep making top tier games.
Recently I started looking at the PS3 game catalog so that I have a library of games to collect and what I found was a vast majority aren't worth my time. And lets not forget that this is a system that has Sony as it software curator determining what get released.
I know the Amiga was usually the best for specific games when compared to versions released for other platforms, but it took a lot of effort to achieve, and by the look of a lot of the games in the video, the time, effort or money just wasn't invested in them.

The problem with the video is that it shows EVERYTHING, not just the most highly-regarded games by opinion, consensus or votes, but practically all of the Amiga's gaming output in its lifetime, all in one place, completely regardless of quality or not.

I mean, watching the video can be a chore seeing poor game after poor game going by, and then a classic pops up and the viewer perks up, only to fall into a stupor again when more poor games come up.

There is a reason "Top Of" lists were created.
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Old 17 May 2021, 11:08   #20
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Two small comments:
1) This video doesn't show anywhere near all of the Amiga games. It does 15 seconds per game, which means it shows 1728 games in total. In reality, the Amiga has several thousand games.
2) The quality argument has never really worked. All systems, including the Japanese ones and the consoles, have far more poor/bad games than they have good ones. You can argue about percentages, but I find that doing so is usually more of fan-boy approach than anything that even remotely approaches realism.

I missed the whole discussion on cute games last time round, so here's my two cents:

In short, I'd say: to each their own. I personally care more about playability than what the game's art style is, so I'd rate for example Rod-Land on the Amiga a good deal higher than say Forgotten Worlds on the Amiga (and vice versa, I'd rate Turrican a good deal higher than Dennis).

Luckily (and as the video neatly demonstrates), for those who don't like cutesy games, there's tons of non-cutesy games out there as well
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