Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask

[Leffmann]

The process simply stops executing, no memory or resources are returned to the system. If the program didn't cause any damage other than to itself, then the system will otherwise be fine.

[B14ck W01f]

Someone told me that if you have an A600 or A1200, the existing caps need to be replaced or they will cause leakage overtime, causing damage to the PCB. Is this true? Why did C= do a pathetic job making boards?

[Vot]

Originally Posted by B14ck W01f

Someone told me that if you have an A600 or A1200, the existing caps need to be replaced or they will cause leakage overtime, causing damage to the PCB. Is this true? Why did C= do a pathetic job making boards?

Yes its true and commodore didn't the caps are well beyond their lifespan.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Vot

Yes its true and commodore didn't the caps are well beyond their lifespan.

Yes, the caps lasted around 10 years before they started leaking which is not too bad. Some went even past 20 years. They could have used some more expensive ones that could last longer, but just consider modern electronics - would you really expect that to work for more than 10 years?

[ajk]

It's not like the caps were designed to leak. SMD electrolytics were still quite new technology at the time and the manufacturing process wasn't perfected. It's not something Commodore could have really taken into account when designing consumer electronics.

[Vot]

Originally Posted by ajk

It's not like the caps were designed to leak. SMD electrolytics were still quite new technology at the time and the manufacturing process wasn't perfected. It's not something Commodore could have really taken into account when designing consumer electronics.

Even if they were, nobody buys components to last longer than the expected lifespan of the device. When your manufacturing millions every cent counts. Unless the device has an expectation for extreme reliability you choose the cheapest part that has an acceptable lifespan and failure rate.

[jizmo]

Why isn't there a simple dir/ls command included in AmigaDOS? Were they really that out of free space or was it just a decision to keep even the most simple parts modular and easily updated?

[idrougge]

What? You have both Dir and List.

[Vot]

Originally Posted by idrougge

What? You have both Dir and List.

Im guessing he is asking why it wasnt in rom

[jizmo]

Rom, yes. It has always struck me odd that Amiga has the built-in system in Rom to access disk for r/w and to boot to a command line from an empty disk, but the simple disk operation like listing the contents isn't possible without running the dir command from another disk.

Is it a legacy thing, done by design or were they just plain out of space?

[appiah4]

Originally Posted by jizmo

Rom, yes. It has always struck me odd that Amiga has the built-in system in Rom to access disk for r/w and to boot to a command line from an empty disk, but the simple disk operation like listing the contents isn't possible without running the dir command from another disk.

Is it a legacy thing, done by design or were they just plain out of space?

Not sure what you are on about but isn't it common computing practice to leave disk operating system and therefore commands on the software side and reserve the ROM for only things that are absolutely necessery to hardcore in order to run the software? I mean, if you end up having an OS bug in the ROM how will you patch that? The PC you are typing on has a BIOS ROM but no DIR command either..

[jizmo]

Ok, I thought providing a command prompt but with all the commands external was an unique approach at the time since with PC's at the time you'd at minimum had to run command.com to get the basic command prompt that included all the basic disk operating commands. Also the home computers of the era booting to Basic provided users the basic disk commands.

And iirc, CP/M machines I used at the time also came with the basic disk commands out of the box.

[appiah4]

Originally Posted by jizmo

Ok, I thought having a command prompt but all the commands external was an unique approach at the time since with PC's at the time you'd have to at minimum run command.com to get the basic command prompt that included all the basic disk operating commands. And the same is true with home computers booting to Basic.

CP/M machine also came with the basic disk commands out of the box iirc

Actually with PCs you have to run COMMAND.COM to actually get all the commands into memory and COMMAND.COM is a part of the OS software not the ROM (and actually the PC does not specifically boot COMMAND.COM, the DOS boot disk is just one of many ways to boot the x86 architecture..). Without a boot disk an x86 PC will not even boot to a command prompt at all. It will basically hang at a POST screen with an error informing the user about lack of bootable media, the same way an Amiga hangs at the Kickstart screen waiting for a bootable media.. So the Amiga method is not unique but actually a rather contemporary way of doing things. Booting into BASIC (or another similar programming environment) is actually a more archaic way of things - my ATARI 800XL used to do that, for example. Yet, a BASIC editor/compiler is hardly a replacement for a disk operating system and will not allow you to do file listing and management..

[jizmo]

I'm aware that Basic is more archaic way and that PC just gives an error with no boot disk providing something to boot - I only provided them as examples of what people using the machines at the time were used to when seeing a similar command prompt: To be able to type in basic commands to control the computer.

To me Amiga's way of booting into a dummy command prompt by just making the boot block bootable is something I've never seen in other computers. Maybe there are other ones but I'm not aware of them.

I've seen it happening hundreds of times; non-Amiga, but otherwise computer literate friends stuck in AmigaDOS prompt after failing or missing startup-sequence trying to type in all the unix/dos/cp/m commands they know to the command line and getting only the usual unknown command errors.

[idrougge]

Isn't Dir part of the 3.x ROM?

[daxb]

I would guess that it was the lack of space in ROM. If you have a look at the commads in ROM and the one in C: directory you will notice that they don`t fit all in ROM and commads in ROM are the most used included. On the other hand there is an update problem when all commads are in ROM. The customer need to buy regular ROM updates. Updates on floppy was much easier/cheaper. Many ROM versions flying around is also not a good idea. Starting with OS3.5/9 they just used the known ROM module update system by software.

but just consider modern electronics - would you really expect that to work for more than 10 years?

Yes, of course. And it need to be repairable. It will be more expensive but we can`t live the way we lived in the past because mankind can`t take more from earth then it holds.

[jizmo]

Originally Posted by daxb

I would guess that it was the lack of space in ROM. If you have a look at the commads in ROM and the one in C: directory you will notice that they don`t fit all in ROM and commads in ROM are the most used included.

This has always been my guess but I've been wondering if there some other reason obvious to everyone else than me. CD and Dir just seem so basic commands that one would think would've have fit in ROM by saving a few bytes from elsewhere.

Originally Posted by idrougge

Isn't Dir part of the 3.x ROM?

I don't think it is, but I'm pretty sure that with rom 3.x moving in directory structure is now supported so that 'cd <directory>' works and '/' takes you back. In 1.x these don't work without said commands on disk.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by daxb

Yes, of course. And it need to be repairable. It will be more expensive but we can`t live the way we lived in the past because mankind can`t take more from earth then it holds.

If only things would be recycled more efficiently, then 'waste' isn't going to waste, but would be used to manufacture new products, i.e. parts of old C=s would become the new iPhone. Most elements can be harvested and recycled, but unfortunately it is often not done properly for economic reasons.

Keeping old computers around for too long is bad for Earth since the efficiency of new models quickly increases. Old Amigas are definitely not good for Earth in any way, only for our fun and games. Seen from an environment perspective, all Amigas should be recycled and made into new technology.

[daxb]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Isn't Dir part of the 3.x ROM?

No. You can check Scout`s "resident command" list or XOpa for example to find out.

[appiah4]

Originally Posted by demolition

If only things would be recycled more efficiently, then 'waste' isn't going to waste, but would be used to manufacture new products, i.e. parts of old C=s would become the new iPhone. Most elements can be harvested and recycled, but unfortunately it is often not done properly for economic reasons.

Keeping old computers around for too long is bad for Earth since the efficiency of new models quickly increases. Old Amigas are definitely not good for Earth in any way, only for our fun and games. Seen from an environment perspective, all Amigas should be recycled and made into new technology.

Over my dead body.