ProTracker 2.3F

[no9]

Originally Posted by Ywe, IT-Scenes

Van Der Falk used lots of stuff like this: [ Show youtube player ]

Yeah, he was great. But unfornately no Protracker allowed us to do this, seemengly simple, thing.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

But then I got reminded about how hard it would be to write UI code, especially for bitplanes. I thought about doing chunky-2-planar and write the UI in C, but that would require a rather fast Amiga.

Please make the attempt anyway to have it run on a slow Amiga.. So many tools are needlessly heavy because a light UI requires more effort.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Jope

Please make the attempt anyway to have it run on a slow Amiga.. So many tools are needlessly heavy because a light UI requires more effort.

And considering the original FT2 runs in a bitplane mode anyway, there's no reason why an Amiga-version couldn't

[8bitbubsy]

Originally Posted by britelite

And considering the original FT2 runs in a bitplane mode anyway, there's no reason why an Amiga-version couldn't

It's a pain in the butt to work with, and a real motivation killer. It's better to have a slower version than having none at all, imo.
My motivation to create a new tracker from scratch for Amiga is already very low, and any way to make the process faster and simpler is golden.
Of course it wouldn't require 060 and RTG and stuff, that would make it a luxury program that only a few people could run (on real hardware).

Anyway, I have updated PT2.3F today with a >64kB bugfix in the parallel port sampling code (thanks to echolevel/Syphus for finding these bugs):
https://16-bits.org/PT23F.LHA
https://github.com/8bitbubsy/pt23f

[Jope]

Thanks for continuing to make PT2.3 better. <3

[8bitbubsy]

There seems to be some other bugs with parallel port sampling, the tracker might crash when editing the newly sampled sample. I'll look into it one day and report back.

[syphus]

Originally Posted by hairball

Hi, I tried the PT2.3F download but can't get it to work. Seems like there isn't any actual software in the file, just a bunch of readme files.

I have the 2.3F bootable disk by Syphus, is that the latest version?

Any help is appreciated, I'm a noob at this emulation stuff

Sorry this is a bit late hairball, but I hope you got it sorted.

As 8bitbubsy said, there's no affiliation between us or the two versions - I released my build (with some customised graphics and a few quality-of-life tweaks that suit my workflow) because some people spotted it and asked if they could try it. The bootPT project is simply an attempt to give newcomers to Amiga tracking an easy, bootable way to fire up a stable version of PT with all the latest fixes and features and dive straight into tracking (it's got some chip samples on the disk too).

As quickly as possible, whenever 8bitbubsy updates his version (which I refer to as the 'official' version of PT2.3F, insofar as any Protracker can be considered official ), I merge his fixes into my code and update bootPT. Or it'd be more accurate to say that I merge my customisations into a copy of his latest code, then assemble that, then test to make sure my changes haven't broken anything.

I hope it's not caused too much confusion - I try to be clear about things in all documentation and I provide links to 8bitbubsy's site so that people can get the canonical version. He's done an amazing job, which only seems more impressive if you spend any time looking at the nightmare of ASM he's tidied up, and he's been very accommodating of my suggestions, bug reports and the one fix I managed to figure out (despite my horrible ASM skills!)

Btw, one more thing I maintain in the bootPT project is an up to date and formatted copy of the Protracker Helpfile - originally written by Peter CRAYON Hanning in 1992, updated sporadically thereafter, and now including all of 8bitbubsy's fixes. Oh, and the 'secret' features he discovered while tidying up the code I tidied it up it for myself so I could easily ctrl+f on a single page in a phone/desktop browser to check a shortcut or some feature's behaviour. If it's useful to anyone else, that's a bonus.

PT HELPFILE

[saimon69]

What i miss is multithreading and the possibility to copy/paste patterns between different threads like in milkytracker
[EDIT] Forgot i asked this some time ago and got told is not going to happen, ok...

[8bitbubsy]

Ok I fixed the PT2.3F parallel port sampling bug, and also removed some other nonsense because I have now properly bug-fixed the quadrascope routine to never read past allocated memory (hopefully).

https://16-bits.org/PT23F.LHA
https://github.com/8bitbubsy/pt23f

TODO: There are some strange Disk Op. bugs, like entering ghost directories, and not always re-reading the directory when changing dir mode (module/song/sample).

[syphus]

Awesome, thanks! Tbh those Disk Op. bugs sound like things I've noticed in PT2.3D since forever, especially not always re-reading the dir. I've always had to click on the [1] / [2] gadget to force a re-read, and it's good for safety to avoid writing over something you didn't intend to, or accidentally loading a sample as a module if you forgot to switch mode. I'll look at PT2.3D to compare though.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by syphus

Awesome, thanks! Tbh those Disk Op. bugs sound like things I've noticed in PT2.3D since forever, especially not always re-reading the dir.

Some dirs, especially if longer filenames are involved, just don't work. It opens up an empty directory, then it requires two "parents" to go back, and it skips a level.

While talking about Disk Op, can we have, like in the clone, a warning about loading a module, if we have an unsaved module already open? This has always been the source of MANY nightmares in the past. Love that the clone asks you if you're sure you wanna load before fucking up your work.

Another most requested feature in our PT-1210 Discord:, many seem to want the extra "filters" option in the Sample window present in PT2 clone. Could that be implemented in 2.3F?

Thanks Bubsy for such amazing job !

[8bitbubsy]

Originally Posted by Akira

Some dirs, especially if longer filenames are involved, just don't work. It opens up an empty directory, then it requires two "parents" to go back, and it skips a level.

While talking about Disk Op, can we have, like in the clone, a warning about loading a module, if we have an unsaved module already open? This has always been the source of MANY nightmares in the past. Love that the clone asks you if you're sure you wanna load before fucking up your work.

Another most requested feature in our PT-1210 Discord:, many seem to want the extra "filters" option in the Sample window present in PT2 clone. Could that be implemented in 2.3F?

Thanks Bubsy for such amazing job !

Sorry, I'm already very tired of dealing with the PT asm code, and I want to be done with it forever, as soon as possible... Crucial bugs must be fixed though.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Sorry, I'm already very tired of dealing with the PT asm code, and I want to be done with it forever, as soon as possible... Crucial bugs must be fixed though.

I can totally understand that (refactoring all our own code out of ASM has been quite a challenge), although I do feel it's a shame that our only light of hope of continued Protracker development, is extinguished

I thank all the work you have put in this thing.

[8bitbubsy]

Why is it so that I'm the only light of hope for ProTracker? I'm some random guy that wanted to re-source PT2.3D and bug-fix it. If I can do it, so can other people (trust me). It's just a matter of learning 68k asm and getting used to the code. The PT2.3F code is available on GitHub: https://github.com/8bitbubsy/pt23f

I feel that I've done what I wanted to achieve, and I would be glad if someone else would take over. I've spent way too much time on this, and the code is giving me a headache. If it was written in C (and not just one huge, intricate asm file), it would be so much easier to work with.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Why is it so that I'm the only light of hope for ProTracker?

Well that's what happens with these things usually. I'd be pleasantly surprised if someone picks up the gauntlet, but given the niche, I would find it unlikely. What you've done is a work of a passion that most would not share.

I was not criticizing you for wanting to be done with it, I was just reflecting on what usually happens with these super specific projects.

Anyway, yeah, seems like a refactoring is due, and as I said, that's quite the task. Someone might, you never know...

[8bitbubsy]

You seem to be quite passionate about PT though, maybe you should look into it?
There's also echolevel/Syphus. If you want it enough, you'll get it. That's how I learnt to do this kind of stuff over time.

[syphus]

Some day I'll find the time to make a concerted effort to learn enough 68k ASM to actually know what I'm doing, and 8bitbubsy's comments and labels will make it much easier to find my way around.

Akira - yeah, there are a load of things I'd like to have an 'Are you sure?' box for, and once I know what I'm doing a bit more, it might be possible to implement them. There's the one you mentioned; there's also when you accidentally try to load a sample (or some other non-module file) when you're still in Load/Save Module mode and the 'Are you sure?' box is actually asking you whether to treat it as a 15 or a 31 instrument mod, NOT whether you'd like to proceed with loading. By that point you've ruined all your unsaved work either way. Not fun.

Absolute stretch goal, for when I win the lottery/get confined to a hospital bed for six months/retire, is to learn enough 68k ASM that I can implement MIDI start/stop/sync in PT2.3F It's good to have a dream...

[daxb]

Everybody should made the mistake with the save module as ... like I did. Lesson learned, never did again.

In my opinion there isn't much sense in developing PT2.x or PT3.x because it is at least 2 decades too late and you have to change too much to be good/better. Further everybody who had a look at the code said it is a mess. It might be better to start from scratch with a good concept and not using ASM. Some high level manageable language instead. However, it must be someone with a passion for it. I handful of users may use the result.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

You seem to be quite passionate about PT though, maybe you should look into it?

If I was a coder/knew what I was doing, maybe I would, but alas it isn't the case I can only perform in a different role in a project like this.

Originally Posted by syphus

Absolute stretch goal, for when I win the lottery/get confined to a hospital bed for six months/retire, is to learn enough 68k ASM that I can implement MIDI start/stop/sync in PT2.3F It's good to have a dream...

I looked into this at some point, I never understood why MIDI sync does not work. There's MIDI sync code in 2.x source I found around but it's "commented out". Start/Stop already work, at least in 2.3D. But sync, yeah.
The key would be actually to make it work properly regardless of sequencer step speed, and not a shitshow like Octamed: when you don't use a particular tick setting, the sync goes out the window. At least using it as a master.

Originally Posted by daxb

Everybody should made the mistake with the save module as ... like I did. Lesson learned, never did again.

A right of passage!

In my opinion there isn't much sense in developing PT2.x or PT3.x because it is at least 2 decades too late and you have to change too much to be good/better.

But it's a standard. If you do start from scratch somehow, it'd have to be 100% compatible with it. And that doesn't sound fun because you're still stuck with the limitations of the protracker module format. I had some ideas about something like this,. but as I said before, am not a coder, so... :/

Also how else are you gonna make PT-1210 compatible songs?

[no9]

Originally Posted by Akira

But it's a standard. If you do start from scratch somehow, it'd have to be 100% compatible with it. And that doesn't sound fun because you're still stuck with the limitations of the protracker module format. I had some ideas about something like this,. but as I said before, am not a coder, so... :/

While I find having Protracker compatible program as very nice, I consider sticking further to module format as very limiting. There is an old interview with Karsten Obarski where he points this out:

Finally, do you have anything to say to the programmers of new trackers?

Just try to find new ways by yourself and do not spend so much time making the same things others have done before you. Support the new OS2.0. The times change and the demands of a good user-interface too.

http://www.bitfellas.org/e107_plugin...hp?content.211

There are good things in Protracker that are worth keeping, but I think there is also room for improvement too, while still in boundaries of plain A500 hardware. Some great ideas from Pink's trackers, sound modulations, would work beautifully with Protracker's plain samples mangling. Now we can have one or the other, but no both.

Dutch Retro Guy also presents something that could be definitely useful in tracker music: 3 Paula channels + 4 SFX channels (that could work for drums, effects, loops or whatever) or any other configuration (2+8 etc), or maybe even dynamic channel allocation that could be modified during playback according to current needs of a music.

[ Show youtube player ]

I think tracker potential of Amiga wasn't fully exploited in the '90s because it was sucked by multichannel stream, but there are ways that can be really useful for music in demos or games, or made for competitions.