[Brainstorming] Power Drift and pseudo 3D circuit games

[saimon69]

so blitter cannot tilt a picture? Can roll it like a page and wave it around but cannot tilt it?

[Cobe]

You can shift lines x offset and make curves, and you can multiply y lines with modulo and make the slopes. Afaik

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by Cobe

Ahh...
That seems totally unlikely for Amiga chipset...

We tried to do this on Chuck Rock 2, but the Amiga just wasn't quite up to it at a good frame rate. The Megadrive version uses this technique for the "back of a dinosaur" and "tree into lava" levels.

[Cobe]

If Dan says so... Than who am I to oppose, which I'm actually not trying to

[saimon69]

I did watch the Chuck 2 videos and want to reiterate that the arcade pic is NOT the desired effect - of course THAT would be optimal but Dan example is a double bend (they bend the tileset vertically - cannot call it tiles) and then bend the bent tileset horizontally) while i was thinking more of a single bend - badly simulated like this ; should pose no problem in a 1200

[saimon69]

Found the game adf and tested in my emulator, in supposed 020 NTSC. So, speed is good, could be compared to the arcade;
however the cars are too big and in some circuits curves are too narrow; those are the main playability concerns that a improved edition should address.
Did not take measurements (yet) but it seems car sprites might be 64 px wide, while 48px could be a decent option.
How to alter the graphics have no clue, and not even how to alter the map. I suppose is not just matter of replacing assets; since the sizes might change means to alter also the engine itself somehow.

[rothers]

100% the best way to do this is a height based raycaster. That way you get the 3D engine for free and the heights are precalculated.

It would be faster than a wolf3d engine as you're not filling the whole screen. You'd be using precalculated blits. That's how I'd do it anyway.

[saimon69]

Looking again around i found this snippet from sega Retro that seems interesting!

The Amiga and Atari ST versions were programmed simultaneously by Zareh Z. K. Johannes of Software Studios, better known by his alias, "ZZKJ". It is in some ways an evolution of ZZKJ's previous project; the Amiga and Atari ST ports of Super Hang-On.

Sega failed to give the team any of the arcade game's assets or source code, meaning artist Saul Marchese had to take "hundreds" of photos of the arcade machine in action, and watch footage of someone playing the game to the end[8]. Due to the limitation of 16 colours per sprite, DEGAS Elite was used as the primary graphics editor.

Unlike Y Board hardware, both the Amiga and ST are incapable of natively scaling sprites, so to create the illusion of depth, all graphics had to be rendered at multiple sizes. A program written by ZZKJ allowed these sprites to be generated on the fly, with Saul touching them up before use.

The Amiga port is spread across two floppy disks, while the Atari ST port needs three. To reduce the amount of disk swapping, course graphics were stored on disk 3. Atari ST users also have to choose between music and sound effects, while the Amiga supports both simultaneously.

Code was written to allow Amiga and Atari ST users to compete against each other by using a null modem cable, but this feature was not implemented in the final product. Its existence would have made Power Drift the only Sega-to-computer port to adopt this feature, and indeed one of a small handful of games in the entire Amiga/Atari ST shared library to support it.

While the arcade version of the game targets 30FPS at all times, Power Drift on the Amiga and ST averages 6-7. Attempts to mitigate the choppy nature of play involved the manipulation of up to 50 sprites per frame.

The Amiga version is optimised to some degree for systems equipped with Motorola 68020 processors. At the time, only the Amiga 2500/20 from 1988 came with this processor out of the box - other Amiga computers would have to be upgraded.

So first that confutes me why the 'lady fingers' used for the street seemed use some kind of copperfill - because indeed were procedurally generated; then it says that there WAS a null modem option but is unused, and lastly that the game was optimized for 020 - and this proves me wrong: ZZKJ did not program the game badly, he simply knew it was not possible on standard amigas but is perfect on a 020 machine like a 1200!

[saimon69]

Through third party i went to know sources of Power Drift are lost, and there goes my improvement plan to the sewers

[saimon69]

Wanted to wait until the main song remake is finished and also polish other songs; however, since am very busy and have little time to do it i decided to show this video now.
I simulated the Power Drift updated soundtrack via video editing here: all in-game songs are three channels beside the High scores one, ad all use samples captured from the arcade by Hoot.
This to see if there is any interest on have the soundtrack updated (but right now i know is not possible due to missing sources)

Will add an updated version when ready.
[ Show youtube player ]

[jotd]

I think that music can still be changed without the sources. The rest of the game, well, too much reverse work to improve it (and it's also not so great)

[saimon69]

Was testing the game adfs couple weeks ago in WinUAE and the speed with all parameters set to emulate an a1200 was pretty good, so am surprised nobody tried to do a vectorbobs 3d game on AGA, it could even handle a decent Galaxy Force impersonator in my opinion - maybe because by the time AGA was around this game style was obsolete? Or is just the WinUAE emulation that fools me to think speed is good?

[saimon69]

I like to add other examples of vectorballs 3D games to show that those were indeed feasible albeit with some sacrifices on a A500 hence in a A1200 should come pretty easy

Line of Fire
[ Show youtube player ]

Narco Police
[ Show youtube player ]

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by jotd

I think that music can still be changed without the sources. The rest of the game, well, too much reverse work to improve it (and it's also not so great)

In a (emulated) 1200 performance is good, however the fat cars, tight corners and lousy collision remains -_-
Am finalizing all songs so we could attempt to do it - but will take time

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by jotd

I think that music can still be changed without the sources. The rest of the game, well, too much reverse work to improve it (and it's also not so great)

Recoloring the arcade assets would take most of the time. I know how to extract those, but is it really useful ? I'm not sure.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Looking again around i found this snippet from sega Retro that seems interesting!



So first that confutes me why the 'lady fingers' used for the street seemed use some kind of copperfill - because indeed were procedurally generated; then it says that there WAS a null modem option but is unused, and lastly that the game was optimized for 020 - and this proves me wrong: ZZKJ did not program the game badly, he simply knew it was not possible on standard amigas but is perfect on a 020 machine like a 1200!

Very honestly ? ZZKJ did his best for both machines, but Source worked to make 1st hand ST versions in mind, the amiga only came as second thought.
And why Degas Elite ? Deluxe Paint was the most used and the best package for graphics...... hum hum

[Havie]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I like to add other examples of vectorballs 3D games to show that those were indeed feasible albeit with some sacrifices on a A500 hence in a A1200 should come pretty easy

Line of Fire
[ Show youtube player ]

Narco Police
[ Show youtube player ]

Two games I have never played. Line of Fire seems a bit Afterburner like in the way that it works but Narco Police moves really smoothly. Imagine either bumped up with 4x the sprites using an A1200 and fast ram. Now you might me be nearer Power Drift...

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Very honestly ? ZZKJ did his best for both machines, but Source worked to make 1st hand ST versions in mind, the amiga only came as second thought.
And why Degas Elite ? Deluxe Paint was the most used and the best package for graphics...... hum hum

Just quoting the article, if you have insights would be glad to know it

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Just quoting the article, if you have insights would be glad to know it

Source and Electric Dreams always worked on the ST as primary platform.

Each sega port they did was done and designed to work around the ST (limitations).

The Amiga was always a second tought. If ZZKJ fully dedicated to the work on the Amiga, it would have been an incredible feat considering his ability.

Btw, if you really want to see what the Amiga can do with Powerdrift superscaling, have a look at digital magic's Shockwave.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Btw, if you really want to see what the Amiga can do with Powerdrift superscaling, have a look at digital magic's Shockwave.

Same coders as Drivin Force (Burt and Law) AND also they did the horizon bending that was told me above NOT to be possible
Feed this engine to an A1200 and even without fast RAM we can indeed have a Power Drift clone if not a Galaxy Force one!

for reference:
[ Show youtube player ]