Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon - Different Versions

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by meynaf

They seem pretty close...
Perhaps an enhanced version is possible, but first i need to locate and understand the graphical routines. Not something early on the todo list.
And i have zero knowledge of apple 2 gs so someone else will have to rip the gfx out of it.

(Oh, yeah. Gimme 256 color iff-ilbm files for all gfx and i'll do an AGA version )

PC VGA version is mentioned in HOL conversion notes, but this is perhaps wrong.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by meynaf

And i have zero knowledge of apple 2 gs so someone else will have to rip the gfx out of it.

Found the Apple IIgs version of Sinbad.

Apparently you can use CiderPress to rip the files out of the .2MG disk images:

faddenSoft CiderPress(tm)

CiderPress is a Windows utility for accessing Apple II archives and
disk images.  A wide range of formats are supported, including
ShrinkIt (NuFX) archives and disk images with DOS, ProDOS, Pascal,
CP/M, and RDOS filesystems.

This program used to be shareware, but is now free.
If you have any questions, please visit the CiderPress
web site at http://a2ciderpress.com/.

...am investigating further

[DamienD]

If anyone wants to try the Apple IIgs version, I've done the following:

• Downloaded the emulator KEGS32.
• Downloaded the required ROMs.
• Setup the required configuration.
• Downloaded the Sinbad disk images.
• Set everything to autostart.

Grab the file "KEGS32 with Sinbad.zip" from The Zone! and extract into "C:\TEMP".

Afterwards run "kegs32.exe" from "C:\TEMP\KEGS32".

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by meynaf

They seem pretty close...

You're right my friend

...after playing the "Apple IIGS" version and watching a YouTube clip of the "Atari ST" version (see below); they are very similar indeed:

[ Show youtube player ]

The screenshots for the "Atari ST" version on Moby Games seem way too bright / adjusted...

Also, the "Atari ST" version has more screens in the intro and who knows what else...

It will be awesome to have this version ported to the Amiga

Anyway, I did play the "Apple IIGS" version for a while... sooooo much more fun than the rubbish Amiga version

[meynaf]

More news...
Step 3 : disassemble the game so that it can be reassembled identical. There can still be errors, but now it assembles ok.
Next is the conversion, the meat of the project. It's only there i can know how hard it is.

[DamienD]

Go meynaf, go!!!

[malko]

Originally Posted by ross

There's no need to bother the Koreans.
It's an ancient (more than two millennia ago) latin proverb:
"Dimidium facti, qui coepit, habet" [who starts is at half of the job] [...]

Thanks mate ! This proverb is in the beginning of this book.
So probably some kind of encouragement not to give up too quickly ?

Originally Posted by meynaf

More news...
Step 3 : disassemble the game so that it can be reassembled identical. There can still be errors, but now it assembles ok.
Next is the conversion, the meat of the project. It's only there i can know how hard it is.

[ross]

I took a look at the features of the Apple IIGS chipset.
Actually can have a better tint than ST version because of the 2^4^3 colors space (like Amiga OCS).
And a scan lines based (16 colors banked) palette selection, that can be easy emulated by Copper (who knows if actually used in this game).

So yes, graphics can be slightly better on GS,
but it's probably difficult to notice the difference if only 16 colors are used

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by ross

I took a look at the features of the Apple IIGS chipset.
Actually can have a better tint than ST version because of the 2^4^3 colors space (like Amiga OCS).
And a scan lines based (16 colors banked) palette selection, that can be easy emulated by Copper (who knows if actually used in this game).

So yes, graphics can be slightly better on GS,
but it's probably difficult to notice the difference if only 16 colors are used

It seems only 16 colors are used..

[saimon69]

What about the music scores? I think the original ones on Amiga were .smus or something very similar made with an ancestor of Sonix, would be possible to use mods instead?

[meynaf]

First question to ask is : which version has the best sounds.

[DamienD]

Personally for this conversion I'd say stick with the Atari ST music / sounds; they're pretty decent

[meynaf]

Ok then. Let's go for this.
And hopefully, as audio code is (for the main part) already ported.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by meynaf

as audio code is (for the main part) already ported.

You sure do work fast my friend!!!

[TjLaZer]

The sound and graphics on the Amiga are the best! It seems to use different graphics though. They are descent and look to have been drawn with DPaint! Would hardly call the ST version better!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

The sound and graphics on the Amiga are the best! It seems to use different graphics though. They are descent and look to have been drawn with DPaint! Would hardly call the ST version better!

You've got to be joking right? The graphics and gameplay on the Amiga are absolutely horrible; hence the whole reason for this thread.

Did you read Bill Williams: The Story of a Life and in particular the part I quoted, especially the last paragraph:

Through an old colleague from Synapse, Bill was put in touch with Bob Jacob, just in the process of starting Cinemaware. Along with Doug Sharp, Bill was signed to become one of Cinemaware’s two lone-wolf developers, given carte blanche to independently create a game based on the movies without being actually being based on a movie; the newly formed Cinemaware was hardly in a position to negotiate licenses. Bob had plenty of ideas: “Bob is a generation older, and he would be recommending movies that were more the stuff that really jazzed him when he was twelve or so. I knew if I didn’t come up with a counter-idea, I was going to have to do one of his.” A big fan of the stop-motion visual effects of Ray Harryhausen, Bill settled on an homage to the 1958 adventure classic The 7th Voyage of Sinbad.

Bill’s Cinemaware game didn’t turn out to be terribly satisfying for either designer or player. While plenty of his games might be judged failures to one degree or another, the others at least failed on their own terms. Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon (1987) marked the first time that Bill seemed to forfeit some of his own design sensibility in trying to please his client. It attempts, like most Cinemaware games, to marry a number of disparate genres together. And, also like many other Cinemaware games, the fit is far from seamless. Whilst trekking over a large map as Sinbad, talking with other characters and collecting the bits and pieces you need to solve the game, you also have to contend with occasional action games and a strategic war game to boot. None of the game’s personalities are all that satisfying — the world to be explored is too empty, the action and strategy games alike too clunky and simplistic — and taken in the aggregate give the whole experience a bad case of schizophrenia.

Sinbad also attracted criticism for its art. Created like every other aspect of the game by Bill himself, I’ve heard it described on one occasion as “gorgeous folk art,” but more commonly as garish and a little ugly. Suffice to say that it’s a long, long way from Jim Sachs’s lush work on Defender of the Crown. It didn’t help the Amiga original’s cause when Cinemaware themselves ported the game in-house to other platforms, complete with much better art. Nothing was more certain to get Amiga users up in arms than releasing Atari ST and even Commodore 64 versions of a game that looked better than the Amiga version.

[TjLaZer]

Originally Posted by DamienD

You've got to be joking right? The graphics and gameplay on the Amiga are absolutely horrible; hence the whole reason for this thread.

Nope. I just tried the ST version and it was mediocre to say the least. (though to be fair did not play a lof it yet, will go back to play more of it as I do own an ST too)

I am extremely confused why this thread exists, unless some of the common screens want to get incorporated into the Amiga version. The Amiga version has a great atmosphere and the music is spot on. The whole experience is absolutely AMIGA. Yes the graphics could be improved but they at least are 32 colors (native Amiga you can tell) I rather have a native port than an Apple IIGS to Atari ST to Amiga port.

When I fist got this game in 1988 I was blown away. To me, it was the highlight of Amiga games and graphics! The graphics are a little raw though like they were done on DPaint, but are acceptable. (Clearly Jim Sachs did not do them.) To each their own I suppose!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Nope. I just tried the ST version and it was mediocre to say the least. I am extremely confused why this thread exists, unless some of the common screens want to get incorporated into the Amiga version. The Amiga version has a great atmosphere and the music is spot on. The whole experience is absolutely AMIGA.

I disagree; after playing the C64 version when young and then finally playing the Amiga version; I was massively disappointed with the gameplay and IMHO (and others it seems from reading the article); think the graphics are rubbish... not at all what you'd expect from a Cinemaware / Amiga game.

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Yes the graphics could be improved but they at least are 32 colors (native Amiga you can tell) I rather have a native port than an Apple IIGS to Atari ST to Amiga port.

If you're happy with the Amiga version then that's good for you, keep playing that version then

...if you want some sort of "native" port then do as I've done and donate some decent money to a person who's willing to undertake your request

[TjLaZer]

I’ve heard it described on one occasion as “gorgeous folk art,”

That is it! It has a unique raw art look, that's why I like it. The pinnacle of Amiga graphics in the early days!

[DamienD]

As the article says and I totally agree with; compare Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon graphics to the totally exquisite Defender of the Crown which was released a year earlier... no comparison what-so-ever.

At least when Cinemaware ported Sinbad in-house to all other platforms, they also improved the rubbish Amiga gameplay