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Old 08 May 2021, 23:54   #1
amigang
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Right to Repair

So there a movement in the tech world on the Right to Repair, I just wonder what Amiga users feel about all this, I know Commodore did a pretty good job for the time they where about, I dont recall them doing any funny business like have custom screw heads made, or holding on to the chips supply or having software / the OS detect none compliment hardware, I look at the whole modding and hacking scene we have got in the Amiga world and it kind of make me sad that the new modern computers dont really have that.

Most Phones & laptops just 6 year ago you could easily replace the battery now that's no longer the case, I get it for some designs it might be very difficult or in practice to allow battery access but then there even stopping third party replacement parts I get it they can be dangerous or not as good quality control but it should be up to the end user of what they do with the device.

Plus who knows where this will lead in the future as more device get connected to the internet, or when all cars go electric. John Deere tractors story is maybe a glimpse of the future? ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/xykk...inian-firmware )

Anyway pretty good video on it here where I feel the basic right to repair a item you own should be allowed.
[ Show youtube player ]
(Sorry if in wrong topic)
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Old 09 May 2021, 00:45   #2
redblade
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I think the Amiga and Atari was released during the age of the home hacker, so you could build stuff at home to connect to your computer, also there was no internet so it wouldn't of been harder to get schematics if you were an electrician doing repairs.

Even in the dot matrix manuals they provided all the info so you could programme your own driver for it. (Well the one I read on archive.org)
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Old 09 May 2021, 06:23   #3
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There is a fine line between right to repair and stifling innovation. Most batteries are not user replaceable today because we asked the manufacturers to make the phones water resistant IP68.
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Old 10 May 2021, 13:35   #4
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To be fair, many A500s had Torx screws, which were a rarity in the '80s. And the openness of the hardware and software, while great for tinkerers and home computer fans, mean that you could reverse an articulated lorry through the inherent security holes.

Water resistance and fashion (i.e. thinness) count for a lot. People buy phones where they're made 0.5mm thinner by using the battery as a structural component. And until manufacturers can be comfortable that using 3rd party batteries won't tarnish their reputation or cause any legal liabilities, they will resist as much as they can. Realistically, making phones 2mm thicker would mean easily replaceable batteries that lasted a week between charges, but people in general don't want that. Thinness takes priority over battery life.

Last edited by Daedalus; 10 May 2021 at 14:36.
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Old 10 May 2021, 14:34   #5
Glen M
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Is it really a problem though?

Leaving mobile phones to the side I can't really think of any other product that isn't easily serviceable just so long as you have the correct tools and, most importantly of all, the warranty has expired. That's always been the case though, you weren't allowed into your Amiga within the warranty period, well, not unless you accepted that opening voids it.

I can easily get to the battery in my kids Nintendo Switch. The side comes off a brand new PC without much trouble. TVs and Radios are generally just screws and clips.

The only thing actually I can think of is phones but lets be honest they only have a 2 year shelf life and the batteries easily outstrip that. Plus consider the battery is the only thing in there you'll be working at, have you seen the size of the components? There is no way job bloggs 80s electronic tinkerer will be "fixing" their modern mobile phone.

And yes theres Apple all in one systems but really, if you buy one of those you probably don't even own a screw driver.
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Old 10 May 2021, 15:57   #6
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Quote:
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There is no way job bloggs 80s electronic tinkerer will be "fixing" their modern mobile phone.
Plenty of Youtube channels which will show you that this is not true; the only thing holding them back is the fact that they can't actually get the replacement components because the manufacturers have been instructed not to sell to third parties.

That's the only thing that I find heinous in the whole right to repair movement really as it really poorly affects people with not so much to spend, other than that it's all part of the wonders of a free consumer market. Companies are free to lock down their gear... and other companies are free to compete with them through products which are designed towards ease of repair and upgrading. I'm pretty sure they can't because for some reason people want to have everything for cheap but they desperately want to pay it to Apple and Samsung anyway.
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Old 10 May 2021, 18:11   #7
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Is it really a problem though?
Yes

Quote:
Leaving mobile phones to the side I can't really think of any other product that isn't easily serviceable just so long as you have the correct tools and, most importantly of all, the warranty has expired.
Washing machines.

It used to be possible to replace the bearings when they died. Not any more - they're expressly designed to make that difficult.

Cars.

Parts that can't be "activated" after fitting - even if genuine - without the manufacturer's own approved tools.

And don't get me started on the myriad devices which are now network-connected and rely upon a remote server to run at all.

A friend of mine was selling a freestanding Internet Radio speaker thing on facebook marketplace a few months back - and he withdrew it because the service it relies upon is about to vanish. So there's a perfectly good piece of tech which will either end up in e-waste in the best-case scenario, and landfill otherwise.

Quote:
The only thing actually I can think of is phones but lets be honest they only have a 2 year shelf life and the batteries easily outstrip that. Plus consider the battery is the only thing in there you'll be working at, have you seen the size of the components? There is no way job bloggs 80s electronic tinkerer will be "fixing" their modern mobile phone.
The thing is, it's not just Joe Bloggs 80s tinkerer this affects - people who repair gear for a living and have all the tools still can't access the parts or schematics for some (OK Apple!) phones. Or, once again, activate a part which requires authorisation for no good reason other than to squeeze out anyone other than the vendor's own techs (who generally won't do anything time-consuming and will instead steer you towards an expensive replacement.)

Quote:
And yes theres Apple all in one systems but really, if you buy one of those you probably don't even own a screw driver.
Yeah, I understand the "It's Apple, what do you expect", argument - but that doesn't mean their behaviour in this sphere should be tolerated!
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Old 10 May 2021, 20:10   #8
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Old 10 May 2021, 20:38   #9
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Originally Posted by alexh View Post
There is a fine line between right to repair and stifling innovation. Most batteries are not user replaceable today because we asked the manufacturers to make the phones water resistant IP68.
We did? Anyway, you know perfectly well that's not what it's all about. "Stiffling innovation" is one of the most tired Big Tech excuses, alongside of "we're doing this to improve user experience".

I must say it boggles my mind, seeing some replies in this thread, that people don't think this kind of corporate shenanigans are a problem. Especially coming from the hobbyists who like to tinker with old hardware.

On the other hand, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, seeing as people have already totally gave up "right to media ownership" and "right to privacy", and right to repair is a small fry compared to these.
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Old 10 May 2021, 21:26   #10
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We, as in the general public, not the small niche of nerds who actually want to do that sort of tinkering, who are an insignificant minority of the customer base for most consumer goods. There are probably a disproportionately large number of products marketed at the tinkerer niche.

I'm not saying the planned obsolescence thing isn't a problem; it is. But there are often practical reasons for many of the decisions too. My previous phone had a replaceable battery. It was simple to disassemble. It had what can reasonably be considered a modern-day userport in the battery bay for DIY add-ons. It even had 3D models available should you ever want to print your own case parts. And it wasn't waterproof, it was quite chunky without the correspondingly larger battery, and after a couple of knocks, would fall apart in my pocket. I replaced it with a phone that's totally sealed up, doesn't have any user replaceable parts, and it's been dropped plenty of times and is still holding together fine despite looking worse for wear. Yes, it would be nice to be able to tinker, but nothing inside a modern phone is tinkerable by any means for the hobbyist. And did I ever replace the battery on my old phone? No. Did I ever print a new shell? No. Did I ever design a peripheral for it? Yes, but I never even built a prototype, so that function was never used either. So for me, as a developer, as a tinkerer, as a retro computer enthusiast, my current phone is a better fit for my needs and I'm quite comfortable with that improvement in user experience.
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Old 11 May 2021, 10:03   #11
gimbal
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Exactly, this channel is an eye opener.

I especially like this reaction video that he did to a piece of garbage hyped up "reporting" about unrepairable kit because there he can really show truth from falsehood and shows to not 100% be against the major corporations, the consumer has a part to play in everything.

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