SNASM / PsyQ / PDS - Amiga to Amiga

skan · 18 May 2020, 14:51

Maybe a silly question, dunno, but it just popped into mind yestereday... did such a system exist instead of the usual PC-to-Amiga cross dev?

Galahad/FLT · 18 May 2020, 15:16

The majority of the systems were run on PC, but i'm pretty sure SNASM had variations that ran on Amiga as well as i'm sure Team 17 used them, but typically most of the systems were PC because of the cheaper access to hard drives which was essential for faster assembling.

Some poor sods didn't even use a development system and did it all on Mega ST's or Amigas with a damned floppy drive!!!

skan · 18 May 2020, 23:41

Thanks, much appreciated!

It would be really cool to get more info on that Team17 amiga-to-amiga dev system.

Phantasm · 20 May 2020, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by skan

Thanks, much appreciated!

It would be really cool to get more info on that Team17 amiga-to-amiga dev system.

agreed. This stuff is quite interesting but there is very limited amounts of information about any of it.

I developed using PsyQ on the PS-1 back in the day. PsyQ was also developed by SN Systems working with Psygnosis and was basically the second generation of SNASM.

We used two types of PS-1 development kits. There was the usual blue ps1 with a hardware interface to the PC to allow remote debugging and cross compiling and we also had PS-1 on a card that plugged into the PC directly and just had a cable coming out of the back that plugged into a TV.

skan · 21 May 2020, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I developed using PsyQ on the PS-1 back in the day. PsyQ was also developed by SN Systems working with Psygnosis and was basically the second generation of SNASM.

We used two types of PS-1 development kits. There was the usual blue ps1 with a hardware interface to the PC to allow remote debugging and cross compiling and we also had PS-1 on a card that plugged into the PC directly and just had a cable coming out of the back that plugged into a TV.

Cool! I remember I read somewhere that amiga-psx crossdev was possible as well, but can't find that info anymore... (apart from this https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...t.aspx?id=1965 )

Phantasm · 21 May 2020, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by skan

Cool! I remember I read somewhere that amiga-psx crossdev was possible as well, but can't find that info anymore... (apart from this https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...t.aspx?id=1965 )

Not sure you'd want to do amiga-psx cross dev lol. I remember the pentium 2 pc's at 133mhz that we are using to cross compile took quite a while to build the entire game source (like 15 minutes or so)

Galahad/FLT · 21 May 2020, 13:57

Putty Squad used Psy-Q.

skan · 21 May 2020, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Not sure you'd want to do amiga-psx cross dev lol. I remember the pentium 2 pc's at 133mhz that we are using to cross compile took quite a while to build the entire game source (like 15 minutes or so)

Of course not, that was just out of curiosity for "historical" reasons. I find pretty fascinating that such stuff existed at all.

In case of amiga-amiga crossdev, on the other hand... I can see some interesting scenarios. Again, just curiosity.

DeaTure · 22 May 2020, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by skan

Cool! I remember I read somewhere that amiga-psx crossdev was possible as well, but can't find that info anymore... (apart from this https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...t.aspx?id=1965 )

I believe someone made Amiga tools for the Net Yaroze PSX hobby development kit. I think it was someone working for FUNCOM, but I don't remember for certain

skan · 22 May 2020, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeaTure

I believe someone made Amiga tools for the Net Yaroze PSX hobby development kit. I think it was someone working for FUNCOM, but I don't remember for certain

http://aminet.net/package/dev/cross/FG-PSXControl maybe this one?

skan · 23 May 2020, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Putty Squad used Psy-Q.

Yeah I remember you mentioned that in an interview. Impressive work btw!

skan · 18 July 2020, 09:13

Bumping this because I was thinking about this idea lately... how would a modern version of a similar tool work? The Amiga-Amiga version I mean, could it be done somehow? What do we need, some custom glue hardware maybe? Let's say f.i. an A4000 dev machine linked to an A500 through CPU slot I suppose? What kind of software layer needs to be written?

Phantasm · 22 July 2020, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by skan

Bumping this because I was thinking about this idea lately... how would a modern version of a similar tool work? The Amiga-Amiga version I mean, could it be done somehow? What do we need, some custom glue hardware maybe? Let's say f.i. an A4000 dev machine linked to an A500 through CPU slot I suppose? What kind of software layer needs to be written?

i don't think it matters that much how the machines link together. You'd need a software layer that would be included in debug builds of your software that allowed you to remote debug your application. So the software layer would basically be a debugger and you would include a call to the routine once per frame so that it could check for incoming commands over whatever connection you had to your dev machine. The debugger would also need to be triggered on a breakpoint or exception. You would also need the user interface side of the debugger to be running on the dev machine to send commands.

Alternatively if you didn't want to do it by including code to allow this to work you could probably do it by constructing something like an action replay cart with a communication port

DanScott · 22 July 2020, 19:52

I seem to remember maybe Richard Aplin wrote code on one Amiga, and then sent it to another Amiga to run... but I might be wrong (hazy memories)

mcgeezer · 22 July 2020, 22:28

At Zeppelin, they were using ST’s to program Amiga’s and C64’s.

Would love to get hold of the stuff they used to do it.

skan · 23 July 2020, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Alternatively if you didn't want to do it by including code to allow this to work you could probably do it by constructing something like an action replay cart with a communication port

Mhmh, interesting!

DeaTure · 23 July 2020, 14:44

In Upfront we had a Amiga->C64 kit called Einstein Assembler and I know friends with a double C64 setup

skan · 18 August 2020, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeaTure

In Upfront we had a Amiga->C64 kit called Einstein Assembler and I know friends with a double C64 setup

Double C64 setup sounds extremely cool!

RichAplin · 05 July 2021, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanScott

I seem to remember maybe Richard Aplin wrote code on one Amiga, and then sent it to another Amiga to run... but I might be wrong (hazy memories)

Yep, I used a parallel port cable; assembled on an A500+A590, then download to either Amiga or ST target running totally bare-metal.
No extra hardware reqd, just a 25-pin D cable. Big time-saver

RichAplin · 05 July 2021, 07:20

Actually waaaay before that... I wrote a 6502 assembler for my Amstrad CPC, then downloaded to C64. I wrote a couple of C64 games that way.

Widely used (by Binary Design at least) in the 8-bit days was a Tatung Einstein (crappy MSX-like computer) cross-assembling onto Spectrum, Amstrad, etc.

And of course "PDS" (PC cross-assembling onto Z80/6502 targets) - that was fucking fast, a pleasure to use. I recall doing Amstrad Double Dragon 1/2 on that

18 May 2020, 14:51	#1
skan Dream Merchant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dreamlands Posts: 530	SNASM / PsyQ / PDS - Amiga to Amiga Maybe a silly question, dunno, but it just popped into mind yestereday... did such a system exist instead of the usual PC-to-Amiga cross dev?

18 May 2020, 23:41	#3
skan Dream Merchant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dreamlands Posts: 530	Thanks, much appreciated! It would be really cool to get more info on that Team17 amiga-to-amiga dev system. Last edited by skan; 19 May 2020 at 12:38. Reason: English, please!

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18 May 2020, 15:16	#2
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,991	The majority of the systems were run on PC, but i'm pretty sure SNASM had variations that ran on Amiga as well as i'm sure Team 17 used them, but typically most of the systems were PC because of the cheaper access to hard drives which was essential for faster assembling. Some poor sods didn't even use a development system and did it all on Mega ST's or Amigas with a damned floppy drive!!!

21 May 2020, 13:57	#7
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,991	Putty Squad used Psy-Q.

18 July 2020, 09:13	#12
skan Dream Merchant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dreamlands Posts: 530	Bumping this because I was thinking about this idea lately... how would a modern version of a similar tool work? The Amiga-Amiga version I mean, could it be done somehow? What do we need, some custom glue hardware maybe? Let's say f.i. an A4000 dev machine linked to an A500 through CPU slot I suppose? What kind of software layer needs to be written?

22 July 2020, 19:52	#14
DanScott Lemon. / Core Design Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Tier 5 Posts: 1,212	I seem to remember maybe Richard Aplin wrote code on one Amiga, and then sent it to another Amiga to run... but I might be wrong (hazy memories)

22 July 2020, 22:28	#15
mcgeezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sunderland, England Posts: 2,702	At Zeppelin, they were using ST’s to program Amiga’s and C64’s. Would love to get hold of the stuff they used to do it.

23 July 2020, 14:44	#17
DeaTure Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Denmark Posts: 8	In Upfront we had a Amiga->C64 kit called Einstein Assembler and I know friends with a double C64 setup

05 July 2021, 07:20	#20
RichAplin Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: san francisco/usa Posts: 176	Actually waaaay before that... I wrote a 6502 assembler for my Amstrad CPC, then downloaded to C64. I wrote a couple of C64 games that way. Widely used (by Binary Design at least) in the 8-bit days was a Tatung Einstein (crappy MSX-like computer) cross-assembling onto Spectrum, Amstrad, etc. And of course "PDS" (PC cross-assembling onto Z80/6502 targets) - that was fucking fast, a pleasure to use. I recall doing Amstrad Double Dragon 1/2 on that

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