Floppy's or Drives? That is the question.

RetroJB · 07 January 2022, 10:51

Hi everyone,

New to the board but a long term Amiga fan. I'm in the process of resurrecting my 1993 Amiga 600, from when I was a kid, that hasn't been touched in about 25 years and have done the following so far:
1) Recap of all capacitors on main board (none appeared to have leaked).
2) Installed a CF drive and installed workbench 2.05 using WinUAE (I have kickstart 2).

I have a Chiron internal floppy drive and an Amitek external floppy drive (drive is actually a Sony) and I have the following problem. I have about 206 floppy disks (genuine games, copies and cover disks) which I'm very keen to continue to use (you know, nostalgia

) but they don't appear to work. At first I thought it was the floppy drive itself but i've cleaned both drives (including heads), recapped the internal drive (just in case) and still get the same outcome. I have installed xcopy pro onto my CF and when I run the checkdisk tool on it I consistently get error code 5 on the entire upper side (sometimes the odd 2 but very rarely) and all green 0's on the lower (65 disks are actually worse and have errors on both sides but i'm not looking at those just yet). So far, I've done the following to investigate the issue:

1) At first I thought it was a head alignment issue so I tried moving the upper head left and right during the checkdisk sweep and I haven't had any joy with it. Surprisingly I mainly get the same outcome with the external floppy drive too.
2) Just to be sure I purchased a Samsung branded PC floppy disk drive and converted it for the Amiga and I get the same outcome! It was purchased from ebay as 'working' but it certainly wasn't. One of the rails that the heads travel down was not clamped down to the lower casing and would freely move from side to side but i've fixed that and, by eye, tried to get the 2 heads aligned. I had done this by fooling the drive to think it had a disk in it causing the 2 heads to make contact and aligning it that way.
3) I've tried cleaning some of the floppy disks themselves with isopropyl and cotton buds but still the same issue.
4) I've picked a random cover disk, used a magnet to erase the data and then tried to format it but I get an error on workbench straight away stating (I think!) there is a bad sector and to try another disk (this happened on 2 drives, didn't bother with the 3rd).
5) I have been able to get 1 game to load, a genuine copy of Street Fighter 2 which loads all the way to the main character selection screen, I can choose a character, load it up with another disk and actually play a fight. Not tried any more than that because the game is shocking! Using XCopy checkdisk is the same thing, upper is all error 5 and lower is all green 0's so i'm guessing the bulk of the games code is on the lower half of the disk hence why it's working to a degree.
6) I've run the Amiga test kit application and run a 'CIA, Chipset' check and it came back all clear.

So... common denominator are the disks themselves. Are they the cause of the issues? Can they be saved or are they now just coasters? I'm still trying to see if its an alignment issue but no break throughs yet. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

chip · 07 January 2022, 10:58

Welcome to the forum !

deimos · 07 January 2022, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroJB

5) I have been able to get 1 game to load, a genuine copy of Street Fighter 2 which loads all the way to the main character selection screen, I can choose a character, load it up with another disk and actually play a fight. Not tried any more than that because the game is shocking! Using XCopy checkdisk is the same thing, upper is all error 5 and lower is all green 0's so i'm guessing the bulk of the games code is on the lower half of the disk hence why it's working to a degree.

If you can read one side of the disks but not the other, is it possible that the side selection signal /SIDE1 has been damaged on either the ribbon cable or the connector?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroJB

So... common denominator are the disks themselves. Are they the cause of the issues? Can they be saved or are they now just coasters? I'm still trying to see if its an alignment issue but no break throughs yet. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds to me like the other common denominator is the Amiga itself. I think you might need to test the disks on a different computer.

RetroJB · 07 January 2022, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip

Welcome to the forum !

Thank you!

RetroJB · 07 January 2022, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deimos

If you can read one side of the disks but not the other, is it possible that the side selection signal /SIDE1 has been damaged on either the ribbon cable or the connector?

That's a good point. I think I have a spare ribbon cable I can try with so will give it a go this evening. I don't see any damage to the connector pins on the board or on the 2 drives (original and samsung)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deimos

It sounds to me like the other common denominator is the Amiga itself. I think you might need to test the disks on a different computer.

Unfortunately I only have the Amiga 600 and a CD32 (recapped, fully working and waiting for a TF330 to arrive). As much as i'd love to have a 500 and a 1200 (to have the set

) they're getting a bit pricey in the aftermarket - especially the 1200. Good point though.

deimos · 07 January 2022, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroJB

Unfortunately I only have the Amiga 600 and a CD32 (recapped, fully working and waiting for a TF330 to arrive). As much as i'd love to have a 500 and a 1200 (to have the set

) they're getting a bit pricey in the aftermarket - especially the 1200. Good point though.

Have any of the disks you have been tested and proven to work on any other machines?

RetroJB · 07 January 2022, 12:39

I'm afraid I don't have any other machines to validate them on. The only Amigas I have are the 600 and a CD32.

RetroJB · 07 January 2022, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by deimos

If you can read one side of the disks but not the other, is it possible that the side selection signal /SIDE1 has been damaged on either the ribbon cable or the connector?

No visible damage to the pins on the motherboard or on the 2 drives. I thought I had a spare ribbon cable but I don't but i've checked for continuity on each of the ports of both ends of the ribbon cable and it seems fine.

breech · 14 January 2022, 23:30

A few suggestions,
Disconnect the external drive and leave it out of the picture, buy a Gotek to confirm its not DF0 related (and can be used for ADFs).
Get a different floppy cable to confirm its not that (chop up a PC cable).
Make/buy a FlashFloppy to backup/examine disks.
Check your cap repairs there could be damage/short/open somewhere.

RetroJB · 10 March 2022, 18:50

So here's an update.
- Have bought 2 floppy drives (one arrived non-working even though stated as working, one was damaged in transit).
- Bought a selection working floppy disks but they didn't work in any of my drives (internal and external)

- Bought a Diagrom and tested the CIA chip and no issues reported.

- Reflowed the solder around the caps that I replaced around the floppy disk IDE connector and checked that they weren't installed in the wrong direction.

- Bought another Amiga 600 and my external floppy drive works with the newly bought working floppies and my existing ones. The internal drive, although needs a clean, does also read my disks so the issue has to lie with the motherboard.

Any suggestions? Yes I could use the new Amiga 600 but my first one is my original one from childhood and is a rev 1 with a low-ish serial number which i'd really like to continue to use. Any help would be greatly appreciated

solarmon · 11 March 2022, 18:22

What is the state of the A600? Has it been recapped?

What motherboard revision is it?

I assume you have used Amiga Test Kit to do a CIA test, long memory test, and to use the disk drive signals tests on it?

RetroJB · 11 March 2022, 18:48

Hi,

A600 is a rev 1 and has been recapped by myself. I've used the Amiga Test Kit and Diagrom to test the CIA chip and both have given it a clean bill of health. There's more info in what i've done so far in the first post as well as my last post.

cpiac64 · 11 March 2022, 20:33

mount the drive of new 600 to old end test the good game

RetroJB · 12 March 2022, 11:30

Sorry, I forgot to include this in my update post. I've also tested the working drive from the new A600 on my original one and it's the same behaviour i.e. can't read disks correctly, checkdisk with XCopy and the upper side is all red 5, lower is all green 0.

07 January 2022, 10:51	#1
RetroJB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: UK Posts: 8	Floppy's or Drives? That is the question. Hi everyone, New to the board but a long term Amiga fan. I'm in the process of resurrecting my 1993 Amiga 600, from when I was a kid, that hasn't been touched in about 25 years and have done the following so far: 1) Recap of all capacitors on main board (none appeared to have leaked). 2) Installed a CF drive and installed workbench 2.05 using WinUAE (I have kickstart 2). I have a Chiron internal floppy drive and an Amitek external floppy drive (drive is actually a Sony) and I have the following problem. I have about 206 floppy disks (genuine games, copies and cover disks) which I'm very keen to continue to use (you know, nostalgia ) but they don't appear to work. At first I thought it was the floppy drive itself but i've cleaned both drives (including heads), recapped the internal drive (just in case) and still get the same outcome. I have installed xcopy pro onto my CF and when I run the checkdisk tool on it I consistently get error code 5 on the entire upper side (sometimes the odd 2 but very rarely) and all green 0's on the lower (65 disks are actually worse and have errors on both sides but i'm not looking at those just yet). So far, I've done the following to investigate the issue: 1) At first I thought it was a head alignment issue so I tried moving the upper head left and right during the checkdisk sweep and I haven't had any joy with it. Surprisingly I mainly get the same outcome with the external floppy drive too. 2) Just to be sure I purchased a Samsung branded PC floppy disk drive and converted it for the Amiga and I get the same outcome! It was purchased from ebay as 'working' but it certainly wasn't. One of the rails that the heads travel down was not clamped down to the lower casing and would freely move from side to side but i've fixed that and, by eye, tried to get the 2 heads aligned. I had done this by fooling the drive to think it had a disk in it causing the 2 heads to make contact and aligning it that way. 3) I've tried cleaning some of the floppy disks themselves with isopropyl and cotton buds but still the same issue. 4) I've picked a random cover disk, used a magnet to erase the data and then tried to format it but I get an error on workbench straight away stating (I think!) there is a bad sector and to try another disk (this happened on 2 drives, didn't bother with the 3rd). 5) I have been able to get 1 game to load, a genuine copy of Street Fighter 2 which loads all the way to the main character selection screen, I can choose a character, load it up with another disk and actually play a fight. Not tried any more than that because the game is shocking! Using XCopy checkdisk is the same thing, upper is all error 5 and lower is all green 0's so i'm guessing the bulk of the games code is on the lower half of the disk hence why it's working to a degree. 6) I've run the Amiga test kit application and run a 'CIA, Chipset' check and it came back all clear. So... common denominator are the disks themselves. Are they the cause of the issues? Can they be saved or are they now just coasters? I'm still trying to see if its an alignment issue but no break throughs yet. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Last edited by RetroJB; 07 January 2022 at 11:22.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Floppy drives	rune	Hardware mods	2	11 January 2014 23:26
Floppy Drives	peter taft	New to Emulation or Amiga scene	12	21 June 2010 07:46
Floppy drives	brokenangel	support.WinUAE	3	18 May 2009 14:40
PC Floppy Drives	adewakd	support.Hardware	1	14 March 2008 18:36
replacing amiga floppy drives with hard drives	Gordon	support.Hardware	2	06 March 2007 00:44

07 January 2022, 10:58	#2
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	Welcome to the forum !

07 January 2022, 12:39	#7
RetroJB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: UK Posts: 8	I'm afraid I don't have any other machines to validate them on. The only Amigas I have are the 600 and a CD32.

14 January 2022, 23:30	#9
breech Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Syd Posts: 184	A few suggestions, Disconnect the external drive and leave it out of the picture, buy a Gotek to confirm its not DF0 related (and can be used for ADFs). Get a different floppy cable to confirm its not that (chop up a PC cable). Make/buy a FlashFloppy to backup/examine disks. Check your cap repairs there could be damage/short/open somewhere.

10 March 2022, 18:50	#10
RetroJB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: UK Posts: 8	So here's an update. - Have bought 2 floppy drives (one arrived non-working even though stated as working, one was damaged in transit). - Bought a selection working floppy disks but they didn't work in any of my drives (internal and external) - Bought a Diagrom and tested the CIA chip and no issues reported. - Reflowed the solder around the caps that I replaced around the floppy disk IDE connector and checked that they weren't installed in the wrong direction. - Bought another Amiga 600 and my external floppy drive works with the newly bought working floppies and my existing ones. The internal drive, although needs a clean, does also read my disks so the issue has to lie with the motherboard. Any suggestions? Yes I could use the new Amiga 600 but my first one is my original one from childhood and is a rev 1 with a low-ish serial number which i'd really like to continue to use. Any help would be greatly appreciated

11 March 2022, 18:22	#11
solarmon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: UK Posts: 1,715	What is the state of the A600? Has it been recapped? What motherboard revision is it? I assume you have used Amiga Test Kit to do a CIA test, long memory test, and to use the disk drive signals tests on it?

11 March 2022, 18:48	#12
RetroJB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: UK Posts: 8	Hi, A600 is a rev 1 and has been recapped by myself. I've used the Amiga Test Kit and Diagrom to test the CIA chip and both have given it a clean bill of health. There's more info in what i've done so far in the first post as well as my last post.

11 March 2022, 20:33	#13
cpiac64 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 1,136	mount the drive of new 600 to old end test the good game

12 March 2022, 11:30	#14
RetroJB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: UK Posts: 8	Sorry, I forgot to include this in my update post. I've also tested the working drive from the new A600 on my original one and it's the same behaviour i.e. can't read disks correctly, checkdisk with XCopy and the upper side is all red 5, lower is all green 0.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)