WTB: Ariadne Ethernet card for A4k

mabus · 11 March 2007, 04:28

Hello all,

Just getting back into the Amiga again after a few years ...

I am looking for an Ariadne (I or II doesn't matter) Ethernet card for an Amiga 4000. I seem to remember these cards were pretty good in the old Zorro based boxes ... How much do I have to pay for such a card these days, and where can I get hold of one? I've heard ebay is supposed to be good for old Amiga stuff, but can't find an Ariadne there (or maybe I'm not looking properly). But in any case I'd rather buy from someone who knows what they're doing, and have taken care of their hardware

Anyone?

alexh · 11 March 2007, 11:22

The Ariadne card isnt made anymore however there IS a zorro ethernet card that is! Called the X-Surf and made by Individual Computing it is a great little card. If you dont SPECIFICALLY want an ariadne card and just want a Zorro Ethernet card then this is a good buy if a little expensive at £80 delivered.

http://www.vesalia.de/?V02b0f1452534...f2527396783d1a

AMIGAZ · 11 March 2007, 11:30

yeah, x-surf cards rock and you'll get two clock ports as well

alexh · 11 March 2007, 11:43

And two (non bootable without Kickflash) IDE interfaces.

mabus · 11 March 2007, 14:23

Hello all,

Thanks for all the helpful responses! It may be a bit expensive, but then if it adds IDE ports too it should be GREAT...

Think I might just have to get one!

alexh · 11 March 2007, 14:31

They are relatively slow IDE ports (compared to say an Elbox Fast ATA). They are comparable to the internal IDE interface present on all A4000's.

They only support hard drives (No ATAPI support for CD-ROMS) and you cannot boot from these hard drives UNLESS you have a Kickflash board (or a homebrew Kickstart ROM) as the X-Surf doesn't have a BOOTROM.

whiteb · 12 March 2007, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

They are relatively slow IDE ports (compared to say an Elbox Fast ATA). They are comparable to the internal IDE interface present on all A4000's.

PIO <vomit>

Zetr0 · 12 March 2007, 00:36

@mike

you can also add IDE interfaces to each port too... upto 8 devices then

(+ 4 on the native too

)

Smiley · 12 March 2007, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amibench

Berendvandermeer
Goutum
Friesland
Netherlands
For Sale :

Hydra Systems: AmigaNet Zorro II with BNC connecter.

40 euro's.

Saw this on Amibench

alexh · 12 March 2007, 00:51

Hydra cards dont work well with WHDload I have heard but only when active (i.e. ok if you switch off TCP/IP stack when playing WHDload games)

Zetr0 · 12 March 2007, 00:54

heres a thought on another route..

its worth mentioning USB networking.. (dont laff LOL)

you could get Thylacine USB card (about £35) and a USB to ethernet dongle (£10) using the sirion drivers its straight off the bat.

heres the card
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~loofy/thylacine.html

heres the dongle
http://www.vanpeltinteractive.com/eb...34222-9145.jpg

heres some info on it and discussion on it all

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...light=usb+card

Thanks to Chain for the info and setting up!

the real beauty here is that alough its slower than the zorro ethernet cards, it offers USB connectivity in replacement...

one coul.d get a self powered hub and really goto town on peripherals too

... including hard disks...

keropi · 12 March 2007, 07:30

I have this usb-lan thingie, I just need to test it...

mabus · 12 March 2007, 12:07

I don't think it's essential that the IDE is fast, could be used for storing modules/photos etc with a cheap, large IDE harddrive.... Think I'll stick with SCSI for the main things, especially since the CPU in the machine is so slow anyway (68040 clocked at 40MHz)...

But then there are clockports which could be used to provide expansion too... so I think, although there probably are cheaper & easier solutions out there, it should be OK!

Will probably get one to try, can always sell it later and lose some money!

mabus · 12 March 2007, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

heres a thought on another route..

one coul.d get a self powered hub and really goto town on peripherals too

... including hard disks..
.

Have you tried this with harddisks? It's a 1.1 card, so the performance when used with HDD's wouldn't be great, but maybe still better than PIO mode ATA on a the IDE bus of SurfX?

alexh · 12 March 2007, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabus

Have you tried this with harddisks? It's a 1.1 card, so the performance when used with HDD's wouldn't be great, but maybe still better than PIO mode ATA on a the IDE bus of SurfX?

USB 2.0 Full Speed

= Maximum theoretical 1.5Mbyte/s (dependant on CPU)

Zorro II PIO

= Maximum theoretical of 3.5Mbyte/s (dependant on CPU)

Zorro III SCSI

= Maximum theoretical of 10Mbyte/s

CSPPC / CSMKIII SCSI

= Maximum theoretical of 48Mbyte/s

Zetr0 · 12 March 2007, 12:57

well lets see the maximum throughput will be way under the theoretical of 12MBPs (12 megabits persecond) wich is about 1MB of real data soooo

you will probly see about 2 thirds that maximum really and thats with a speedy cpu too. It would be quite processor intensive as well, but in seriousness if all you gonna use it for is adf transfering it would be more than ample.

Personally If given the opportunity I would plumb for an XsurfII/III as alexh suggests this is a good alround solution ( i have a Xsuf2 lucky me

).

you could spend a liitle more on your investment for you big box miggy.

what about adding a PCI back plane ?

£74.19 (Vesalia - www.vesalia.de ) :X-Surf 3
http://www.vesalia.de/?V02b0f1452514...e671351692f786

instead of spending £80 on a new Xsurf or similar why not consider something like the following

£144.99 ( AmigaKit - www.amigakit.com ): Mediator PCI 4000Di Busboard
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...e07d2a7c8d4219

but what about this for and idea:
for an extra £20 more than the X-Surf 3 you could have a FULL PCI back plane

£99.99 ( AmigaKit - www.amigakit.com) : Prometheus PCI Busboard (A4000 / A3000)
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...e07d2a7c8d4219

this would give you easy access to incredibly cheap graphics cards and network cards as well as TV in cards and sound cards...

Given the opportunity ( i.e i had a big box miggy ) I would consider a PCI solution for two reasons.

1.
The cost and performance of zorro cards is no where near thier pci counter-parts.

2.
Future Expansions:
I have sooo many old PCI cards its crazy! from sound cards, graphics cards, network cards and all sorts... a PCI expansion would be the route i would take.. as i see it like this...

i dont use the PCI cards i have so for the sum of £100, I can have not only 10/100 network I can also Have a 64MB voodoo 5500, sound blaster 128 and a TV tuner in card!

all that for £20 more than the X-surf 3... hmmmm seems almost a given really.

BUT (since this post is stupidly long! )

If you wanted to build a PURE zorro implementation of a big-box amiga thats pretty awsome. I have all the bits for my A1200 Zorro miggy so it can be a PURE zorro implementation.

(also have a A1200 PCI implementation too

)

Zetr0 · 12 March 2007, 13:03

@Alexh

Quote:

USB 2.0 Full Speed
= Maximum theoretical 1.5Mbyte/s (dependant on CPU)

I am pretty sure that:

USB1.1 is 14Mbps ( /8 ) = 1.75MB per sec. Theoretical Plane
USB2.0 is 480Mbps( /8 ) = 60MB per sec. Theoretical Plane.

alexh · 12 March 2007, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

( i have a X-Surf 2 lucky me

).

What is the difference between a X-Surf 2 and 3?

Quote:

£144.99 Mediator PCI 4000Di Busboard

If you can afford this (and you dont have a graphics card) this is the way to go, with one of these you could add a network card, sound card and RTG gfx card for almost no more investment (perhaps £20).

DONT get a Prometheus. Why?

The board goes at 90' to the slots in the case and so the PCI cards dont screw into place. You always have to have the top off your A4000D case AND the cards flop about.
DMA doesnt work and so sound cards dont work. They've been promising an update for like 3 years!

alexh · 12 March 2007, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

I am pretty sure that:
USB1.1 is 14Mbps ( /8 ) = 1.75MB per sec. Theoretical Plane
USB2.0 is 480Mbps( /8 ) = 60MB per sec. Theoretical Plane.

USB2.0 HI-SPEED is 480Mbps, but USB 2.0 FULL SPEED (which is what most Amiga products are) is 12Mbit/s as is USB1.1

http://www.usb.org/developers/usb20/backgrounder/

Quote:

Hi-Speed USB extends the speed of the connection from 12 Mbps on Original USB up to 480 Mbps on Hi-Speed USB

Zetr0 · 12 March 2007, 13:10

@alexh

the difference between an Xsurf 2 and 3....

well my friend.... you have me there.... I cannot honestly find any disernable difference....

Indeed I agree Alexh the Mediator is a better way to go for a final PCI implementation as it has a lot more support compaired to the Prometheus.

but if you wanted quick and dirty

11 March 2007, 04:28	#1
mabus Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 121	WTB: Ariadne Ethernet card for A4k Hello all, Just getting back into the Amiga again after a few years ... I am looking for an Ariadne (I or II doesn't matter) Ethernet card for an Amiga 4000. I seem to remember these cards were pretty good in the old Zorro based boxes ... How much do I have to pay for such a card these days, and where can I get hold of one? I've heard ebay is supposed to be good for old Amiga stuff, but can't find an Ariadne there (or maybe I'm not looking properly). But in any case I'd rather buy from someone who knows what they're doing, and have taken care of their hardware Anyone?

11 March 2007, 14:23	#5
mabus Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 121	Thanks :) Hello all, Thanks for all the helpful responses! It may be a bit expensive, but then if it adds IDE ports too it should be GREAT... Think I might just have to get one!

11 March 2007, 14:31	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,466	They are relatively slow IDE ports (compared to say an Elbox Fast ATA). They are comparable to the internal IDE interface present on all A4000's. They only support hard drives (No ATAPI support for CD-ROMS) and you cannot boot from these hard drives UNLESS you have a Kickflash board (or a homebrew Kickstart ROM) as the X-Surf doesn't have a BOOTROM. Last edited by alexh; 11 March 2007 at 14:37.

12 March 2007, 12:07	#13
mabus Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 121	Surfx I don't think it's essential that the IDE is fast, could be used for storing modules/photos etc with a cheap, large IDE harddrive.... Think I'll stick with SCSI for the main things, especially since the CPU in the machine is so slow anyway (68040 clocked at 40MHz)... But then there are clockports which could be used to provide expansion too... so I think, although there probably are cheaper & easier solutions out there, it should be OK! Will probably get one to try, can always sell it later and lose some money!

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11 March 2007, 11:22	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,466	The Ariadne card isnt made anymore however there IS a zorro ethernet card that is! Called the X-Surf and made by Individual Computing it is a great little card. If you dont SPECIFICALLY want an ariadne card and just want a Zorro Ethernet card then this is a good buy if a little expensive at £80 delivered. http://www.vesalia.de/?V02b0f1452534...f2527396783d1a

11 March 2007, 11:30	#3
AMIGAZ Amiga-Mad Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,291	yeah, x-surf cards rock and you'll get two clock ports as well

11 March 2007, 11:43	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,466	And two (non bootable without Kickflash) IDE interfaces.

12 March 2007, 00:36	#8
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@mike you can also add IDE interfaces to each port too... upto 8 devices then (+ 4 on the native too )

12 March 2007, 00:51	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,466	Hydra cards dont work well with WHDload I have heard but only when active (i.e. ok if you switch off TCP/IP stack when playing WHDload games)

12 March 2007, 00:54	#11
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	heres a thought on another route.. its worth mentioning USB networking.. (dont laff LOL) you could get Thylacine USB card (about £35) and a USB to ethernet dongle (£10) using the sirion drivers its straight off the bat. heres the card http://members.optusnet.com.au/~loofy/thylacine.html heres the dongle http://www.vanpeltinteractive.com/eb...34222-9145.jpg heres some info on it and discussion on it all http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...light=usb+card Thanks to Chain for the info and setting up! the real beauty here is that alough its slower than the zorro ethernet cards, it offers USB connectivity in replacement... one coul.d get a self powered hub and really goto town on peripherals too ... including hard disks...

12 March 2007, 07:30	#12
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I have this usb-lan thingie, I just need to test it...

12 March 2007, 12:57	#16
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	well lets see the maximum throughput will be way under the theoretical of 12MBPs (12 megabits persecond) wich is about 1MB of real data soooo you will probly see about 2 thirds that maximum really and thats with a speedy cpu too. It would be quite processor intensive as well, but in seriousness if all you gonna use it for is adf transfering it would be more than ample. Personally If given the opportunity I would plumb for an XsurfII/III as alexh suggests this is a good alround solution ( i have a Xsuf2 lucky me ). you could spend a liitle more on your investment for you big box miggy. what about adding a PCI back plane ? £74.19 (Vesalia - www.vesalia.de ) :X-Surf 3 http://www.vesalia.de/?V02b0f1452514...e671351692f786 instead of spending £80 on a new Xsurf or similar why not consider something like the following £144.99 ( AmigaKit - www.amigakit.com ): Mediator PCI 4000Di Busboard http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...e07d2a7c8d4219 but what about this for and idea: for an extra £20 more than the X-Surf 3 you could have a FULL PCI back plane £99.99 ( AmigaKit - www.amigakit.com) : Prometheus PCI Busboard (A4000 / A3000) http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...e07d2a7c8d4219 this would give you easy access to incredibly cheap graphics cards and network cards as well as TV in cards and sound cards... Given the opportunity ( i.e i had a big box miggy ) I would consider a PCI solution for two reasons. 1. The cost and performance of zorro cards is no where near thier pci counter-parts. 2. Future Expansions: I have sooo many old PCI cards its crazy! from sound cards, graphics cards, network cards and all sorts... a PCI expansion would be the route i would take.. as i see it like this... i dont use the PCI cards i have so for the sum of £100, I can have not only 10/100 network I can also Have a 64MB voodoo 5500, sound blaster 128 and a TV tuner in card! all that for £20 more than the X-surf 3... hmmmm seems almost a given really. BUT (since this post is stupidly long! ) If you wanted to build a PURE zorro implementation of a big-box amiga thats pretty awsome. I have all the bits for my A1200 Zorro miggy so it can be a PURE zorro implementation. (also have a A1200 PCI implementation too )

12 March 2007, 13:10	#20
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@alexh the difference between an Xsurf 2 and 3.... well my friend.... you have me there.... I cannot honestly find any disernable difference.... Indeed I agree Alexh the Mediator is a better way to go for a final PCI implementation as it has a lot more support compaired to the Prometheus. but if you wanted quick and dirty

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