James Pond - too hard for my badly aged reflexes

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by jotd

Gods: I can complete that one anytime anywhere Chaos Engine is another example.

To be honest, I never gave Gods a proper go. I would just get irritated on level one with some of enemies and stop playing. I think this game deserves another 'go', but other part of your post points to biggest issue there.

Originally Posted by jotd

I think the problem with the games now is that we don't have as much time as we used to have in the past. I'd like to play Cadaver, Push Over, Magic Pockets ... again but every time I find something better to do (like sleeping for instance )


Ok back to Bzil's Wolf 3D. First level was easy, but second level is a tough nut. Wait...

This is me 100%. I just tried Magic Pockets few months ago and soon after try I was on something else... My biggest issue is that i have probably at least 100 games on Steam that I really like to try/play, and most of them I would probably play to end, but no time. This just further messes with retro gaming.


Speaking of Cadaver, am I the only one who finds controls hard to get used to. Another game I had original on Amiga (it was in A500+ pack, with Fighter Bomber, Marble Madness and Shanghai), but never went far in game, after struggling with controls.

[jotd]

Bitmap Brothers games are the best.

In Bitmap Bros games, enemies just don't respawn, that's a real asset.

Gods isn't hard, not stressful, and enemies appear at the exact same location everytime. Easy to predict. And difficulty is progressive. The trick is not to rush, take your time, do not walk into enemies too often or you'll die quickly. Use a lot of weapon upgrades, shoot a lot.

Magic Pockets is super hard and very long, and tricky. It's great specially when using the NTSC version with passwords. Trying to play from level 1 to the end is just ... horribly hard and boring since jungle levels are annoying at hell and also hard (this isn't level 1 syndrome, as level 3 and 4 are good). The only longplay on YT probably uses whdload and my gold star cheat which means it's not a good longplay...

Cadaver controls are pretty horrible too. "H" to hold the weapon, return / fire which one do i need arghhh. I'm planning to adapt controls to joypad in whdload one of those days, that will give me an excuse to go through it again

Chaos Engine: just perfect, play it over and over with all 6 characters + 6 CPUs, then in 2 player mode that makes ... well a lot of combinations.


exception for Chaos Engine 2: I tried to play that one way above level 1, but finally got bored. Action is too frantic, screen split is horrible, the CPU is super aggressive and knows the map better than you. Too bad as the graphics (specially AGA) and sound is top notch as always.

[gimbal]

I must say that playing with the gamepad on the mini... Cadaver plays quite alright. Still a few ARGH! moments where the bastard just refuses to jump but that's freeform isometric games for you.

Speaking of Cadaver, someone actually did a speedrun of level 1. Quite impressive:

[ Show youtube player ]

Huge spoilers of course

The sound in this video is weird to me though, maybe the recording software is trying to balance the rather aggressive ear-puncturing sounds of the game? (seriously, who came up with that insane death scream)? It sounds a lot cooler actually.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by jotd

Bitmap Brothers games are the best.

They are indeed very good. Speedball 2 is still my favourite 'sport' game. But there are some of their games that just feel slightly off. Like Xenon 2 for example. I can't quite put my finger on why as a vertical shooter it doesn't tick all the boxes (and might also rub me the wrong way at times ).

Originally Posted by jotd

Gods isn't hard, not stressful, and enemies appear at the exact same location everytime. Easy to predict. And difficulty is progressive. The trick is not to rush, take your time, do not walk into enemies too often or you'll die quickly. Use a lot of weapon upgrades, shoot a lot.

Predict if you know the level. I love the presentation and the upgrade sysem, but the game doesn't offer that much 'wiggle room'. You either know where the enemies spawn or you don't stand much of a chance. Of course the more often you play the game the easier it gets, but it can feel quite frustrating until you get there

Originally Posted by jotd

Chaos Engine: just perfect, play it over and over with all 6 characters + 6 CPUs, then in 2 player mode that makes ... well a lot of combinations.

Here I fully agree Choas Engine is (in my opinion) Bitmap Brothers masterpiece. It's challenging and certain classes have an edge, but it rewards the player for exploration, co-op is fantastic and the upgrade system actually matches the difficulty increase. Yep, I would also call it perfect.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by jotd

Gods isn't hard, not stressful, and enemies appear at the exact same location everytime. Easy to predict. And difficulty is progressive. The trick is not to rush, take your time, do not walk into enemies too often or you'll die quickly. Use a lot of weapon upgrades, shoot a lot.

After reading this, booted Gods and played first few levels and here are couple of things that made me quit game before:
* too many secrets, keys and items that opens something else - going back to your previous post - just don't have time to explore everything

* without save state would not even try to play this game... you really have to rick-dangerous whole level to remember when it spawns, what spawns and even where it is safe to jump....

* I agree that with not rushing, game is easier, but aren't there doors/levels that will not happen if you don't complete something in time?! (can't remember what, just remember reading something about it)


I should probably look at what to get in shop, as first time it opens, I had no idea what to get. (energy was full)


Now I need to figure out how to kill this Boss thingy at the end of level....




Playing from IPF images, unmodified version.

[gimbal]

The game has timed secrets, certainly. Right at the start there is one. They're just for completionists and secret hunters though, you won't be short on money if you miss them. The game has pretty complex secrets really, sometimes you even have to toy with the AI to trigger them to bring you stuff.

[jotd]

Gods is a great game. For me it's the best platformer ever. But like all games you're discovering just now, the nostalgia is not the same. I have a hard time playing good titles I never played in the nineties.

[Anubis]

I agree with that sentiment. It is hard(er) to get into some games, even you know they were good. In my case, you have to get into mood for a game, and for me usually reading review and old mags helps.

For me Lionheart and SuperFrog are best platformers on miggy, and those are games I still end up playing from time to time. I also have nice memories discovering/playing Another World and Flashback first time.

Back to Gods, is it possible to get stuck on level without ability to finish level?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Back to Gods, is it possible to get stuck on level without ability to finish level?

yes. But you really have to do it on purpose. Level 1-3 you can fall into the pit after the giant jump wears off (sega/SNES versions have a shallow pit at this point!).


At this same level, once you reach the second part, if you fall down to the first part, you can't go up again, maybe you can suicide by falling from heights and respawn somewhere else.

[gimbal]

I always "feared" you could get stuck in that pit, and so far that fear has kept me from getting stuck

Now that I think about it, does that superjump actually reappear somewhere else in the game? I can't remember any. Seems like a weird experimental feature they just left in for the heck of it.

[jotd]

The superjump appears a few times. To get to secret 1-2 platform,then at 1-3 in the pit (and to shortcut the level start).

It also appears at 2-1 in the special teleport room. If you complete the bonus puzzle you get a giant jump which allows you to get the world key without bothering with all 3 chrystals.

And it doesn't appear after that. It's a rather "dangerous" item as it allows to reach unreachable platforms so people could exploit it around the real puzzle. I encourage that in my custom levels

[gimbal]

oh yeah, now I remember that skip in 2-1. Blew my mind when I saw someone do that in a youtube video People give the game flack for the framerate but even by today's standards it has so much depth to its mechanics. The same for Cadaver, how did they pull that one off back in the day. What evil brain masterminded all the insane puzzles.

[Anubis]

Good thing I am making save states at the end of each level. I think I just managed to get stuck on 2.1 or 2.2?! Once done with Gods, probably should play James Pond, just because I messed this discussion and derailed it into Gods discussion.

[jotd]

sorry for the derailing. That's true, save states are a good way to make progress without frustration. And maybe one day complete the game without cheating.

[gimbal]

Or in the case of James Pond... they salvage the game somewhat. Still, it's hard to save a game with this gameplay loop (back and forth, back and forth...). They done good turning Robocod into a proper platformer.

Interesting thing to think about, what would make James Pond a fun game to try and beat. Reducing the amount of damage you take and tightening the collision detection makes what is there now more bearable but I can hardly call it fun for the long run, it's beyond repetitive. I mean even if the game would have a level select, I don't think I'd go for the later levels unless someone threatened me. What is it missing?

I think the Bitmaps discussion kind of answered that question: Puzzles. And secrets.

[Mr Creosote]

Originally Posted by Anubis

I agree with that sentiment. It is hard(er) to get into some games, even you know they were good.

I keep having this problem with Cannon Fodder. I know it is an amazing game. Everything tells me that, shows me that. Yet, I can never fully shake the frustrating first experiences I had with it back in 1994 when I tried playing it with my tank mouse. And that makes me a bit sad, because I know this is one of the greatest games of its generation, and I will never be able to fully appreciate it.

On top of what was said, James Pond, in my view, would need larger open spaces in its levels. With the underwater inertia, things would be much less dangerous if there were more room to move about without instantly being hit by something.

[jotd]

Cannon Fodder could do with saves between mission parts. It wouldn't be that easier, but would be less frustrating

[TCD]

Originally Posted by jotd

Cannon Fodder could do with saves between mission parts. It wouldn't be that easier, but would be less frustrating

That's why I like playing on emulation. Saving, whenever and whereever you want

[Anubis]

And even with that, if you try to save all your little friends, game crashes around level 19.

Back to derailment called Gods - got to Level 3, but with little health. (used all money to increase weapon powers) Created save just in case I have to go to shop and get health rather then weapon power.







BTW, are there 4 levels in the game??

[gimbal]

Yes. Pretty big ones of course