AmigaOS 3.2 and beyond

[malko]

Originally Posted by hUMUNGUs

The thing is Bruce, he didnt ask for your opinion. He asked the team. There´s a huge difference. Let the team answer. Thank you !

For the ones not having the appropriate material, it should remain an option and not being installed by default.
But having a good TCP/IP stack in the WB disks would be nice.

Originally Posted by Rotzloeffel

It is your choise while Installing the OS which Iconset should be used

user choice

[ma693541]

But not all things aren't clear even in the FAQ, How to do certain things learned I by reading Amiga Future when it came to do things in AmigaOS 3.1.4.x.

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by ma693541

But not all things aren't clear even in the FAQ, How to do certain things learned I by reading Amiga Future when it came to do things in AmigaOS 3.1.4.x.

You will learn a lot with AmigaOS 3.2 as a user if you want to. No AmigaOS version has done this before.
And you won't need to buy anything extra. Everything will come built-in.

I will say no more, until the time comes.

[ma693541]

Thanks gulliver.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by hUMUNGUs

The thing is Bruce, he didnt ask for your opinion. He asked the team. There´s a huge difference. Let the team answer. Thank you !

OK, then I am asking the team to not waste their time trying to integrate a TCP/IP stack that users might not want and is no better (or worse) than those that are already available.

Please try to keep the bloat to a minimum.

Originally Posted by kamelito

Future versions of the OS should IMO make it easier for developers to write programs. Tools and OS functions, Utility.library should be expanded to offer as many functions as needed so developers don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Adding all of the commons algorithms in there...

Yes, please include every function and algorithm that lazy developers don't want to write their own code for, even though 90% of it will rarely if ever be used. This will require at least a 4MB ROM, but who cares memory is cheap!

But don't make it too easy. Create screwy APIs for it that nobody can figure out, then under-document them and put a few subtle bugs in so we have to apply workarounds or avoid using certain functions and substitute our own. Then in a few years when developers have finally gotten to grips with it, instead of fixing the bugs scrap the whole thing and bring out another one that is incompatible.

[demon-knight]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

OK, then I am asking the team to not waste their time trying to integrate a TCP/IP stack that users might not want and is no better (or worse) than those that are already available.

Please try to keep the bloat to a minimum.

Yes, please include every function and algorithm that lazy developers don't want to write their own code for, even though 90% of it will rarely if ever be used. This will require at least a 4MB ROM, but who cares memory is cheap!

But don't make it too easy. Create screwy APIs for it that nobody can figure out, then under-document them and put a few subtle bugs in so we have to apply workarounds or avoid using certain functions and substitute our own. Then in a few years when developers have finally gotten to grips with it, instead of fixing the bugs scrap the whole thing and bring out another one that is incompatible.

Too much coffee this morning?

[Tigerskunk]

For me it seems there is enough new stuff already in 3.2.
Let the team finish it.

[boemann]

Originally Posted by Hercules

I would like to see a GUI for diskdoctor and possibly a TCP/IP stack included as standard. The only problem with the later of course is lack of space as like WB 3.1.4 it uses actual floppy disks for installation.

A GUI fro DiskDoctor would be interesting as people who have trouble with disks are not limited to people who know how to handle a shell. That said. it is not in the cards this ti.me around

A TCP/IP stack would be roadshow as it is the fastest and best. But it is also a commercial product, and so including it would increase the price even for those not wanting it. I really believe it will be best to just endorse roadshow as the "official" TCP/IP stack companion

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by boemann

A GUI fro DiskDoctor would be interesting as people who have trouble with disks are not limited to people who know how to handle a shell.

I doubt anyone is incapable of opening a shell and typing "diskdoctor df0:".

Originally Posted by boemann

A TCP/IP stack would be roadshow as it is the fastest and best. But it is also a commercial product, and so including it would increase the price even for those not wanting it. I really believe it will be best to just endorse roadshow as the "official" TCP/IP stack companion

If a TCP/IP stack was ever to be included, I'd hope it was integrated into the OS properly. Not just an included piece of software like Genesis from 3.9 was. The OS should know the stack is running, and it should know to suspend it if necessary (WHDLoad, some demos).

[robwired]

I REALLY hope I don’t upset anyone with this question but I think it makes sense to ask.

As I see it the Amiga is the only computing platform that has users who want it to make a resurgence and care enough to support it. Unlike other platforms, like the Atari ST, TRS-80 and Apple II, Amiga users actually want a continuation of the OS and would be willing to contribute time, money and resources to make it happen.

Amiga users are unique and different than Linux users but what isnt different is the contributions that could be collected and made into something really great.

So my question is simple, why not create a license that would allow Amiga OS to receive contributions from the community, much like Linux?

This doesnt necessarily have to be open source either as the license owners should make something for maintaining and running the Amiga OS project.

Here are three ways it could be done:

1) Create something like an Open Source license for the OS but require that AmigaOS be run only on Amiga licensed hardware.

2) Create an Open Source license for the hardware that requires a licensed OS. Set a flat license fee indexed to inflation.

3) Create an Open Source branch that co-exists with a layer on top for Amiga licensed IP, like Synology/XPenology, Darwin/MacOS.

Im just spitballing but the Linux community finds ways to make it work. There has to be a reward for everyone in order for all to work together.

The dev contributors need to know their unpaid contributions are going towards something that can never be taken away, the owners need to earn a return on investment and the hardware mfgs need to earn a living.

The point is that Amiga could rise from the ashes and become a real OS competitor in time if only this is structured.

[Rotzloeffel]

Originally Posted by robwired

So my question is simple, why not create a license that would allow Amiga OS to receive contributions from the community, much like Linux?

This allready exists http://aminet.net

[ma693541]

@robwired "1) Create something like an Open Source license for the OS but require that AmigaOS be run only on Amiga licensed hardware." and what about all of us who want to run the OS on an emulated Amiga thru WinUAE?

[wiser3]

Originally Posted by robwired

This doesnt necessarily have to be open source either as the license owners should make something for maintaining and running the Amiga OS project.

No one that has ever claimed any rights to the Amiga has ever earned enough trust for the community to let them choose what code/features officially get added to the Amiga.


Wish i could have worded that more clearly.

[E-Penguin]

I think many of us would love to see the amiga os open sourced, but while hyperion and cloanto can make money off it by selling old versions and new versions build for free by skilled enthusiasts, there's no urgency on their part.

But this is a discussion for elsewhere. I greatly admire those involved in 3.2, licensing issues aside

[ferrellsl]

Originally Posted by robwired

The point is that Amiga could rise from the ashes and become a real OS competitor in time if only this is structured.

Good grief, you must have been sniffing paint when you wrote that comment. The Amiga died years ago and nothing is going to change that. The chance for the Amiga to become a real OS competitor disappeared around 1990. If you're delusional enough to believe that the Amiga can rise from the ashes and become real competition for Windows, MacOS or Linux then you'd also believe that MacOS System 9.2 could be resurrected to compete too. Too much water under the bridge. You sound like one of those folks who bought an Amiga in 1985 and then never found a need for a more modern system and haven't realized that the rest of world has moved light years ahead of what the Amiga offered in 1985....like some sort of Rip Van Winkle of the home computing world. To believe that the Amiga could be overhauled and catch up to systems that have had a 35 year lead is delusional.

[Olaf Barthel]

Originally Posted by Hercules

I would like to see a GUI for diskdoctor and possibly a TCP/IP stack included as standard.

Not so sure about the TCP/IP stack in there

Disk Doctor is a tool of last resort when everything else has failed or let you down. It's designed to work under difficult conditions, when a single boot disk with nothing else installed on it other than Disk Doctor might be the only thing that is still available.

This accounts for its lack of a GUI and the many controls & options it offers. Most of what Disk Doctor can do requires no tinkering with the options, though. But you might want to read how to use it before the need arrives to finally put it to use. A GUI is not going to improve upon that

There is also the challenge of making good use of the available memory. Disk Doctor is designed to use as little memory as possible (which is much harder to accomplish than it sounds), so that you may recover data from disks several gigabytes in size without also needing an Amiga with several hundred megabytes of RAM.

[ferrellsl]

Originally Posted by activist

[mod edit]

You're more than just delusional if you think AmigaOS can compete with the operating systems tailored to run on SBC's/SOC's. You've obviously been hiding in a virtual cave (or maybe a real one) since 1992. You're obviously not involved with anything in the IT world either to even suggest such a thing because if you were, you'd already have been laughed out of any room where you were foolish enough to bring up such a ridiculous idea. And as for an Amiga OS that runs on ARM based SBC's, there's already the ARM branch of AROS which is a re-implementation of AmigaOS 3 and I'm sorry to inform you that it hasn't taken the world by storm because it too lacks all the things that established and living operating systems have had for decades such as memory protection, process separation, mature and current dev tools, robust software libraries, multi-user capabilities, etc., etc....The Intel and ARM branches of AROS have been around for years too with the initial release over 25 years ago. If they were viable alternatives on SOC's/SBC's, then they would have already been adopted by users in droves, but they haven't. There are simply too many better alternatives out there for it or any other Amiga-like OS to gain any traction in the market place or in the SBC/SOC hobby space. Get over it and get over yourself too. The Amiga died 30+ years ago and you're no "Jesus Christ of the IT world" who is going to raise it from the dead. Leave your cave and educate yourself. I suggest this as a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AROS_R...erating_System

[lilalurl]

@activist and ferrellsl: Your recent posts seem more like a personal quarrel than anything else and I had to remove some insulting parts from them.

Maybe you guys forgot the rules of the board, especially regarding personal attacks:
http://eab.abime.net/faq.php?faq=eab...aq_eab_account

Change the tune of your posts back to normal or sanctions will be taken.

[Liqourice]

I wonder that myself because of these reasons, it isn't the golden calf and never will be so why are they squabbling som much over it. I guess it's some kind of misdirected pride and prestige, that's all. Some never seem to grow up.

[digitalMedic]

Patiently waiting for AmigaOS 3.2! Thanks for all the hard work devs