ClassicWB P96 in real Amiga?

Retrofan · 15 January 2011, 00:24

Hi:
I was going to install P96 in my Amiga and it works, although after booting it shows some messages about picasso 96 and the screen only boots with all the icons out of place and using few colors. Later I noticed... it only works in WinUAE? At the instructions it doesn't say it clearly.

A simple question: Any other ClassicWB with the same and running in my Amiga?

If not, whow can I make it work without Picasso?

FOL · 15 January 2011, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Hi:
I was going to install P96 in my Amiga and it works, although after booting it shows some mesages about picasso 96 and the screen only boots with all the icons out of place and using few colors. Later I noticed... it only works in WinUAE? At the instructions it doesn't say it clearly.

A simple question: Any other ClassicWB with the same and running in my Amiga?

If not, whow can I make it work without Picasso?

You need to setup your screenmodes in picasso, then they will appear in prefs/screenmode.
You also have to have the right gfx driver in devs/monitors folder.

Can I ask why you have installed Picasso, your sig doesnt mention you having a Graphics Card.

Retrofan · 15 January 2011, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

You need to setup your screenmodes in picasso, then they will appear in prefs/screenmode.
You also have to have the right gfx driver in devs/monitors folder.

Can I ask why you have installed Picasso, your sig doesnt mention you having a Graphics Card.

That's what I was saying, I only have heard about graphic cards, but at the instructions it doesn't say nothing about real amigas...I thought it could run on them (without RTG), but I go to the two questions, Can I change it or is there any similar?

EDIT: And I'm thinking, why do I need Picasso to run it? Does it have any booting screen using it or something? If I change the colors and so, I've got the screen right, after booting, and if it's to make a booting screen, I can make it other way...

FOL · 15 January 2011, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

That's what I was saying, I only have heard about graphic cards, but at the instructions it doesn't say nothing about real amigas...I thought it could run on them (without RTG), but I go to the two questions, Can I change it or is there any similar?

As far as I know, Picasso is ment only for setting up screen modes for RTG GFX Cards.

If your using an Indivision, then you can use "HIGHGFX" from Aminet to allow higher screen modes with the Indivision AGA.

Retrofan · 15 January 2011, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

As far as I know, Picasso is ment only for setting up screen modes for RTG GFX Cards.

If your using an Indivision, then you can use "HIGHGFX" from Aminet to allow higher screen modes with the Indivision AGA.

You do know more than I. I'm waiting like an idiot so many months for it... I'm waiting for the new Indivision like mad...

. And that is what's written in my sig...

FOL · 15 January 2011, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

You do know more than I. I'm waiting like an idiot so many months for it... I'm waiting for the new Indivision like mad...

. And that's is what's written in my sig...

Doh,

.

Retrofan · 15 January 2011, 01:29

Hey Fol I told you I had the PC tower out of order and this afternoon they told me it was working right, I was using it till now, but......... Now I`m again in the Amiga...

fitzsteve · 15 January 2011, 01:33

Hey Fernando,

You could try CWB ADV SP it has the same Icon pack as P96 and will be lightning fast on your setup, of course it dosen't need a GFX Card.

Steve.

Retrofan · 15 January 2011, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Hey Fernando,

You could try CWB ADV SP it has the same Icon pack as P96 and will be lightning fast on your setup, of course it dosen't need a GFX Card.

Steve.

I installed it yesterday in a 4Gb CF, but I was liking more this one, and as I already made the Amikit conversion, now I`m thinking to change it too. I taked a look at the startup sequence and the user-startup... but I`m not so good with this things...perhaps Bloodwych...

EDIT: Just forget it. CWB ADV SP has all I need. Thanks.

Bloodwych · 15 January 2011, 14:18

You can make the ADV SP pack look like the P96 - but remember you won't have millions of colours like the P96 pack is capable of. For that you need a graphics card. That's why the ADVSP pack has copper - to make Workbench more colourful even though it is only running lower colours for speed and low chipram usage.

What you need to do is select a wallpaper and use a PC graphics program to resize it to the same size as what you are using (640x256 PAL-HIRES or 640x512 PAL-HIRES INTERLACED). Now if you use a fixed palette, like the 16 colour one Cammy has linked on this board...

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=693435&postcount=49

...you also need to map the wallpaper to this palette. It will end up dithered but you can still get some good results even with 16 colours. Look at mflos as an example:

[ Show youtube player ]

Yes, that is ClassicWB ADVSP running IN ONLY 16 COLOURS with Rebel's optimized palette.

The advantage in using 16 colours is fast speed and less chipram usage, but with your fast Amiga Retrofan you may want to use many more colours so you get nice looking iGame screenshots. It sill might be useful to fix the first 16 colours to Rebel's optimized palette in case you want to decrease colour depth, or you may feel having more free pens is better.

Another thing to note is PNG format may be faster than using JPEG. BMP or ILBM might be even better, as the pic won't need decompressing and will be in a lossless format. I can't remember what works best with Scalos, you'll have to experiment.

From the settings menubar at the top, disable Copper. Now you may want to add a border black program, as disabling copper will also disable the black border.

Go to Shortcuts->Default and enable Backdrop. This will get rid of the Scalos window border.

Finally, go to Settings->Scalos->Pattern and select the wallpaper picture you prepared earlier. It should now look a lot like the P96 version.

8bitbubsy · 26 May 2011, 16:23

I'll bump this thread:
Why on earth is there no tutorial for installing ClassicWB P96 on a real Amiga with an RTG? The ClassicWB P96 page says "UAE emulator recommended". It's like "This is for a real Amiga, but we recommend running it in an Amiga emulator", then they're like "We only have instructions for running this in an emulator, well f*** you if you want it on a real Amiga."

I even tried to install Picasso96 from scratch again on the P96 setup, and still the same "Can't set up Picasso96 board" thing error message that Retrofan got. And why have ClassicWB P96 and ClassicWB UAE if the P96 one is meant for an Amiga emulator only? This makes me pissed off, was it intentional to piss off users like that?

fitzsteve · 26 May 2011, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

I'll bump this thread:
Why on earth is there no tutorial for installing ClassicWB P96 on a real Amiga with an RTG? The ClassicWB P96 page says "UAE emulator recommended". It's like "This is for a real Amiga, but we recommend running it in an Amiga emulator", then they're like "We only have instructions for running this in an emulator, well f*** you if you want it on a real Amiga."

I even tried to install Picasso96 from scratch again on the P96 setup, and still the same "Can't set up Picasso96 board" thing error message that Retrofan got. And why have ClassicWB P96 and ClassicWB UAE if the P96 one is meant for an Amiga emulator only? This makes me pissed off, was it intentional to piss off users like that?

Thats not a very nice post mate after the work Bloodwych goes to on these packs.

The P96 pack is designed for WinUAE, AHI, Picasso96, etc are all setup to work with UAE drivers.

Advanced RTG Workbenches are custom to each individual setup, there is no pack you can just download that would work, you need to start from a basic install and add the support your self.

Now I do run the P96 as well as my own Workbenches on real Amiga's so it can be done but you need some paitence in setting it up.

After your rant though I'm not really sure I want to spend the time talking you through it.

Again, there is no tutorial because it would be completely different depending on your setup, i.e if you had a Mediator PCI or if you had just Zorro Cards, some RTG cards don't even support Picasso96.

Steve.

8bitbubsy · 26 May 2011, 16:35

I've already given ClassicWB a lot of good response and comments, this is for the P96 pack specifically, there is a difference in that.

I found a post by you that had written a little tut on how to do it, so I am doing it over again. Sorry for my rage, but it's just the way the pack is presented on the page, like it was meant for Picasso users on a real Amiga.

Bloodwych · 26 May 2011, 20:46

It's one line that is misleading, I'll change it. You are the first to get so worked up about it. As fitzsteve said, the P96 pack is meant for emulators, but it can be converted. I simply don't have the knowledge to write a detailed tutorial as I don't have the hardware to test - but there are those that can help.

Every other pack apart from the P96 (and UAE versions) work on real Amigas out of the box, so I think its a bit harsh what you said but perhaps your just firing from the hip after feeling frustrated.

As I mentioned above, for real Amigas its best to start with the ADVSP and add what you require specifically for your Amiga hardware. I make general packs for regular Amiga's, and always state they are just a base install to give you a head start, not a complete solution. I've never done specific packs covering drivers for addon hardware. I think AmigaSYS may be better in that regards, but other users haven't had issues with modifying the packs for their own setups.

Of course it was never my intention to annoy, but the packs are what they are. If someone wants to release packs optimized for addon Amiga hardware rather than my general approach, they are free to do so and I'll include the packs on my webpage. I'm not in a position to do that myself however, as I have no way to test.

Also if anyone gets around to writing an RTG tutorial, I'll put that up too. It took AmiKit years to release a RTG tutorial for getting it to run on real Amiga's, as Fitzsteve said it requires a little work, but perhaps there is some useful info on their webpage with regards to converting the P96 pack successfully.

EDIT: The Amikit real Amiga guide PDF is here: http://amikit.amiga.sk/knowledge-base.htm

Bloodwych · 26 May 2011, 21:34

I've made changes to that misleading line, now reads "UAE emulator required" to avoid confusion and ties in better with the instructions.

Sorry for the pain it caused 8bitbubsy. As metioned above - it wasn't my intention, just an oversight. Hope you get your Amiga sorted.

fitzsteve · 26 May 2011, 22:08

Here are the basic steps to run the P96 pack on a real Amiga. This breif guide assumes you have a resonable knowlegde of Workbench 3.1

Firstly you need to setup the P96 pack under WinUAE so that it is fully functional.

'Put Away' any of the Icons you don't need from the Workbench/Desktop as this will save you chip Ram when it comes to setting up on the Real Amiga.

Disable the background image for now as again this will help when we come to the Real Amiga (we will set it again later)

Now change the screen mode to Pal High Res Laced and save.

Open the Drawer Devs:Monitors and delete the UAE Monitor File.

Go to Prefs:AHI and set the Music and Sound Units to Paula and Save.

Restart and copy all the files from SYS: to your Amiga's CF or HDD. Remember if you are using an 060 to add the Phase 5 or Apollo LIBS.

You will also need the Picasso96 archive:

http://aminet.net/package/driver/video/Picasso96

Load up your real Amiga, assuming it boots you're ready to setup Picasso96.

Extract the archive into Ram and the run the Installer and choose 'Upgrade Install' Just tick the boxes for Upgrade Monitor Driver and Screen Modes only.

Follow the steps on screen and choose your RTG Card (If you have a Mediator PCI you need to install the Mediator Drivers first off the MMCD and follow the Mediator procedure for install Voodoo/Radeon Cards - this info is on the MMCD)

Once you have finished the update for P96 reboot your Amiga.

Now goto Prefs:Picasso96 Mode, right click and choose the option from the top menu 'attach board' and pick your Graphics Card.

If you chose the correct settings during the install when you chose your Monitors refresh rate you should have some basic Screen Modes to test. start with 800x600 and test that this works, you may have to adjust the clock for your Monitor.

If you get the test screen up save your settings and reboot when prompted.

You can now goto Prefs: Screen Mode and update your resolution to 800x600x24 and redo your chosen background and bring back any of the Icons you want to 'leave out' you should now have Classic Workbench P96 on your real Amiga

I hope that helps for now, maybe over the weekend I'll add some screen shots and fill in any gaps I missed since I wrote this from memory.

All the best,

Steve.

mech · 27 May 2011, 01:16

Just thought i would mention the latest p96 v2.1B can be fount here:

http://amiga.serveftp.net/downloads.html

i Think the one on aminet is the older 2.0

mech

AmigaFriend · 27 May 2011, 13:24

I think you should really use the unnoficial 2.1c version with lots of updates:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co.../Picasso96.htm

The site is down at the moment so I attached the file.

BTW 8bitbubsy I think your comments are a bit harsh to say the least. One can be frustrated by one thing or problem, that's why this forum exists for help and interchange ideas. Bloodwych dedicates much of his time to make excellent packs for FREE. I think at least that he deserves a lot of respect for that and you could ask for help in a proper manner not bashing something just because it's the way it is and when in the same site exist LOTS of alternatives for your Amiga. Politeness and respect never is out of place anywhere in this world if one seeks help and answers for a specific problem.

seuden · 27 May 2011, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpect

Bloodwych dedicates much of his time to make excellent packs for FREE.

Not quite true, I hear he gets a lot of satisfaction knowing we all love ClassicWB.

8bitbubsy · 28 May 2011, 03:57

Thanks xpect, I'll get some nice use from that patched/updated version.
Again, I am sorry for being rough and mad, but I spent the whole day manually putting files and ADFs on a CF, take down the A2000 from the table, rig up the A1200 there, write out disks, put A2000 up back, boot and test... And burn several CDs with an LHA I made of ClassicWB P96... I don't have ADHD or anything, but boy I was feeling the rage in the end. My way of putting the rage towards Bloodwych was indeed very disrespectful and not polite.

We all need to fail to learn/change, I'll try to reflect on this the next time I post in frustration and anger.

15 January 2011, 00:24	#1
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,185	ClassicWB P96 in real Amiga? Hi: I was going to install P96 in my Amiga and it works, although after booting it shows some messages about picasso 96 and the screen only boots with all the icons out of place and using few colors. Later I noticed... it only works in WinUAE? At the instructions it doesn't say it clearly. A simple question: Any other ClassicWB with the same and running in my Amiga? If not, whow can I make it work without Picasso? Last edited by Retrofan; 15 January 2011 at 01:58.

26 May 2011, 20:46	#14
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	It's one line that is misleading, I'll change it. You are the first to get so worked up about it. As fitzsteve said, the P96 pack is meant for emulators, but it can be converted. I simply don't have the knowledge to write a detailed tutorial as I don't have the hardware to test - but there are those that can help. Every other pack apart from the P96 (and UAE versions) work on real Amigas out of the box, so I think its a bit harsh what you said but perhaps your just firing from the hip after feeling frustrated. As I mentioned above, for real Amigas its best to start with the ADVSP and add what you require specifically for your Amiga hardware. I make general packs for regular Amiga's, and always state they are just a base install to give you a head start, not a complete solution. I've never done specific packs covering drivers for addon hardware. I think AmigaSYS may be better in that regards, but other users haven't had issues with modifying the packs for their own setups. Of course it was never my intention to annoy, but the packs are what they are. If someone wants to release packs optimized for addon Amiga hardware rather than my general approach, they are free to do so and I'll include the packs on my webpage. I'm not in a position to do that myself however, as I have no way to test. Also if anyone gets around to writing an RTG tutorial, I'll put that up too. It took AmiKit years to release a RTG tutorial for getting it to run on real Amiga's, as Fitzsteve said it requires a little work, but perhaps there is some useful info on their webpage with regards to converting the P96 pack successfully. EDIT: The Amikit real Amiga guide PDF is here: http://amikit.amiga.sk/knowledge-base.htm Last edited by Bloodwych; 26 May 2011 at 21:06.

26 May 2011, 22:08	#16
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	Here are the basic steps to run the P96 pack on a real Amiga. This breif guide assumes you have a resonable knowlegde of Workbench 3.1 Firstly you need to setup the P96 pack under WinUAE so that it is fully functional. 'Put Away' any of the Icons you don't need from the Workbench/Desktop as this will save you chip Ram when it comes to setting up on the Real Amiga. Disable the background image for now as again this will help when we come to the Real Amiga (we will set it again later) Now change the screen mode to Pal High Res Laced and save. Open the Drawer Devs:Monitors and delete the UAE Monitor File. Go to Prefs:AHI and set the Music and Sound Units to Paula and Save. Restart and copy all the files from SYS: to your Amiga's CF or HDD. Remember if you are using an 060 to add the Phase 5 or Apollo LIBS. You will also need the Picasso96 archive: http://aminet.net/package/driver/video/Picasso96 Load up your real Amiga, assuming it boots you're ready to setup Picasso96. Extract the archive into Ram and the run the Installer and choose 'Upgrade Install' Just tick the boxes for Upgrade Monitor Driver and Screen Modes only. Follow the steps on screen and choose your RTG Card (If you have a Mediator PCI you need to install the Mediator Drivers first off the MMCD and follow the Mediator procedure for install Voodoo/Radeon Cards - this info is on the MMCD) Once you have finished the update for P96 reboot your Amiga. Now goto Prefs:Picasso96 Mode, right click and choose the option from the top menu 'attach board' and pick your Graphics Card. If you chose the correct settings during the install when you chose your Monitors refresh rate you should have some basic Screen Modes to test. start with 800x600 and test that this works, you may have to adjust the clock for your Monitor. If you get the test screen up save your settings and reboot when prompted. You can now goto Prefs: Screen Mode and update your resolution to 800x600x24 and redo your chosen background and bring back any of the Icons you want to 'leave out' you should now have Classic Workbench P96 on your real Amiga I hope that helps for now, maybe over the weekend I'll add some screen shots and fill in any gaps I missed since I wrote this from memory. All the best, Steve. Last edited by fitzsteve; 26 May 2011 at 22:13.

27 May 2011, 01:16	#17
mech Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: texas,usa Posts: 235	latest P96 Just thought i would mention the latest p96 v2.1B can be fount here: http://amiga.serveftp.net/downloads.html i Think the one on aminet is the older 2.0 mech

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15 January 2011, 01:29	#7
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,185	Hey Fol I told you I had the PC tower out of order and this afternoon they told me it was working right, I was using it till now, but......... Now I`m again in the Amiga...

15 January 2011, 01:33	#8
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	Hey Fernando, You could try CWB ADV SP it has the same Icon pack as P96 and will be lightning fast on your setup, of course it dosen't need a GFX Card. Steve.

15 January 2011, 14:18	#10
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	You can make the ADV SP pack look like the P96 - but remember you won't have millions of colours like the P96 pack is capable of. For that you need a graphics card. That's why the ADVSP pack has copper - to make Workbench more colourful even though it is only running lower colours for speed and low chipram usage. What you need to do is select a wallpaper and use a PC graphics program to resize it to the same size as what you are using (640x256 PAL-HIRES or 640x512 PAL-HIRES INTERLACED). Now if you use a fixed palette, like the 16 colour one Cammy has linked on this board... http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=693435&postcount=49 ...you also need to map the wallpaper to this palette. It will end up dithered but you can still get some good results even with 16 colours. Look at mflos as an example: [ Show youtube player ] Yes, that is ClassicWB ADVSP running IN ONLY 16 COLOURS with Rebel's optimized palette. The advantage in using 16 colours is fast speed and less chipram usage, but with your fast Amiga Retrofan you may want to use many more colours so you get nice looking iGame screenshots. It sill might be useful to fix the first 16 colours to Rebel's optimized palette in case you want to decrease colour depth, or you may feel having more free pens is better. Another thing to note is PNG format may be faster than using JPEG. BMP or ILBM might be even better, as the pic won't need decompressing and will be in a lossless format. I can't remember what works best with Scalos, you'll have to experiment. From the settings menubar at the top, disable Copper. Now you may want to add a border black program, as disabling copper will also disable the black border. Go to Shortcuts->Default and enable Backdrop. This will get rid of the Scalos window border. Finally, go to Settings->Scalos->Pattern and select the wallpaper picture you prepared earlier. It should now look a lot like the P96 version.

26 May 2011, 16:23	#11
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,709	I'll bump this thread: Why on earth is there no tutorial for installing ClassicWB P96 on a real Amiga with an RTG? The ClassicWB P96 page says "UAE emulator recommended". It's like "This is for a real Amiga, but we recommend running it in an Amiga emulator", then they're like "We only have instructions for running this in an emulator, well f*** you if you want it on a real Amiga." I even tried to install Picasso96 from scratch again on the P96 setup, and still the same "Can't set up Picasso96 board" thing error message that Retrofan got. And why have ClassicWB P96 and ClassicWB UAE if the P96 one is meant for an Amiga emulator only? This makes me pissed off, was it intentional to piss off users like that?

26 May 2011, 16:35	#13
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,709	I've already given ClassicWB a lot of good response and comments, this is for the P96 pack specifically, there is a difference in that. I found a post by you that had written a little tut on how to do it, so I am doing it over again. Sorry for my rage, but it's just the way the pack is presented on the page, like it was meant for Picasso users on a real Amiga.

26 May 2011, 21:34	#15
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I've made changes to that misleading line, now reads "UAE emulator required" to avoid confusion and ties in better with the instructions. Sorry for the pain it caused 8bitbubsy. As metioned above - it wasn't my intention, just an oversight. Hope you get your Amiga sorted.

28 May 2011, 03:57	#20
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,709	Thanks xpect, I'll get some nice use from that patched/updated version. Again, I am sorry for being rough and mad, but I spent the whole day manually putting files and ADFs on a CF, take down the A2000 from the table, rig up the A1200 there, write out disks, put A2000 up back, boot and test... And burn several CDs with an LHA I made of ClassicWB P96... I don't have ADHD or anything, but boy I was feeling the rage in the end. My way of putting the rage towards Bloodwych was indeed very disrespectful and not polite. We all need to fail to learn/change, I'll try to reflect on this the next time I post in frustration and anger.

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