Leander the cave and nostalgia

Locash · 01 December 2017, 22:33

When Locash was a young lad he got a copy of Leander from the school yard like so many before him and discovered a great looking and sounding game with a couple of issues.

You could only pick Music or SFX and no matter how hard I tried I always got stuck in cave. Eventually, I took my hard earned paper round money traipsed to the local Microstore and got the original and the Cave problem went away.

Fast forward 26 years and I noticed that Jon Burton of Travelers Tales and creator of Leander has started a Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV...7zyxajhhRc7i0g channel sharing his tips and tricks of the trade. So I asked him, why the choice of Music/SFX when the games detects the extra 512k of Chip Ram and why did the Cave trap you. Answer below.

Quote:

Reason for either music or sfx was a lack of memory, so it only had room for one or the other

Quote:

The crack uses the extra chip ram. The original game runs in the base 512kb memory. I used so much memory there wasn't enough room for them to crack it and stay in memory, hence the extra 512kb for the hack. Although if you had the 512kb extra I used it for the shop so it didn't need to load midlevel. The missing platform was copy protection to effectively turn the game into a demo. I knew whoever cracked it wouldn't test beyond the first few levels. I also doubled the enemy hit points if cracked...

I kinda figured the platform was intentional as it was so sneaky but didn't know about the doubled hit points and the fact the shop was the only thing that used the extra 512k.

Maybe after Jon finishes his Sonic 3D directors cut a rebuild of Leander with music and sound support might appear.

Muzkat · 01 December 2017, 23:58

Nice find. I knew about the cave copy protection glitch but not about the enemies having double their usual hitpoints.

Superman · 02 December 2017, 10:15

There is an alternative crack that does allow you to complete the cave level.

s2325 · 02 December 2017, 12:00

I remember some crack problems where horse will never show up so you can not jump on higher platform by using carriage.

PortuguesePilot · 02 December 2017, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

There is an alternative crack that does allow you to complete the cave level.

And which crack is that?

jotd · 02 December 2017, 14:49

strange as when I fixed the game for JST/Whdload I removed the protection without even noticing (it was a longtrack which I skipped)

Unless there's an issue with those adaptations...

ransom1122 · 02 December 2017, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2325

I remember some crack problems where horse will never show up so you can not jump on higher platform by using carriage.

Superman · 02 December 2017, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

And which crack is that?

From what I remember the Skid Row crack ( 3 disk) with the +15 trainer by Legend is ok.

Edit: yes I just tried it and the platform is there and useable.

Amiga1992 · 02 December 2017, 17:51

Thanks for pointing out that this guy had a Youtube account. VERY interesting stuff within, although I wish some of the videos were longer! A lot of focus on Sonic 3D Blast, but I hope they cover more of the other fantastic Traveller Tales games.

Locash · 02 December 2017, 22:32

Agreed on the channel. His website has a poll every so often to pick the topic of the next video, how the collision works in Leander is one of the options and hopefully it wins at some point.

Interesting to see the cross over from his early demo scene code on the Amiga making its way into the games he did for the Megadrive.

PortuguesePilot · 03 December 2017, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

From what I remember the Skid Row crack ( 3 disk) with the +15 trainer by Legend is ok.

Edit: yes I just tried it and the platform is there and useable.

Thanks.

demoniac · 04 December 2017, 01:42

I believe Skid Row originally released it with the platform bug and later fixed it. The Company version always worked.

WayneK · 18 January 2018, 20:54

Hi,

Just came across this (semi-)interesting video by Jon/S.A.E who coded Leander, about some tricks used in the protection:-

[ Show youtube player ]

StingRay · 18 January 2018, 23:27

Fun to watch but the tricks used aren't anything special even if he seems to be quite proud of his protection. At least he didn't access the protection code directly.

And there always is a way to place patch code in memory, no matter how much memory the game uses.

You do know all that of course, I was just feeling playing Captain Obvious.

Thanks for sharing the video though, always interesting to see what coders think of their "inventions".

Galahad/FLT · 18 January 2018, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

Fun to watch but the tricks used aren't anything special even if he seems to be quite proud of his protection. At least he didn't access the protection code directly.

And there always is a way to place patch code in memory, no matter how much memory the game uses.

You do know all that of course, I was just feeling playing Captain Obvious.

Thanks for sharing the video though, always interesting to see what coders think of their "inventions".

Yeah, because no-one else before Jon thought to use indirect offsets for their protection

Thing is, he's not being entirely honest.

1). Yes Skid Row (well, FFC!!) fucked up
2). Legend trained the Skid Row version and realised something was up quite quickly
3). The Company released their 100% 4 disk crack
4). FFC released a fix for the Skid Row version.
5). Skid Row version is only on three disks like the original because FFC removed several images.
6). The Company didn't remove anything, hence the extra disk
7). Jon doesn't even acknowledge WHY The Company had to use an extra disk because of the originals larger disk format, which lamely suggests The Company were somehow at fault for that.

And then he does a video bragging about it, when half of the story is missing.

Shame that.

Locash · 19 January 2018, 01:36

Looks like my questions may have caused Jon Burton to release a video on Leander

. He just put a breakdown of the copy protection up on YouTube.

[ Show youtube player ]

Amiga1992 · 19 January 2018, 14:49

Holy shit that video is amazing!
I didn't know they would burn holes on a disk. Brilliant!

Leander attacs, BUT ALSO PROTEC.S

DamienD · 19 January 2018, 14:54

Hmmm, maybe I should merge with this thread: Leander copy-protection

Edit: Done!!!

Rotareneg · 19 January 2018, 15:33

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if his explanation of "Trying to write to a physical hole in the disk" was true it wouldn't be able to work with write protected disks.

Surely it actually just reads from a spot that's either been physically damaged (which seems mighty excessive, anyone mind taking a close look at their Leander floppies to check?) or just has a weak/fuzzy bit and checks that it doesn't get the same result from multiple reads.

Locash · 19 January 2018, 19:48

Yeah that's confusing me as well, a write protected disk would trigger a failure. Sadly my originals for this are in storage atm so I can't give them an eyeball check.

18 January 2018, 20:54	#13
WayneK Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Somewhere secret Age: 50 Posts: 364	Leander copy-protection Hi, Just came across this (semi-)interesting video by Jon/S.A.E who coded Leander, about some tricks used in the protection:- [ Show youtube player ]

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01 December 2017, 23:58	#2
Muzkat Into the Wonderful Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Earthrealm Age: 42 Posts: 1,426	Nice find. I knew about the cave copy protection glitch but not about the enemies having double their usual hitpoints.

02 December 2017, 10:15	#3
Superman Super Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wakefield Age: 48 Posts: 1,334	There is an alternative crack that does allow you to complete the cave level.

02 December 2017, 12:00	#4
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	I remember some crack problems where horse will never show up so you can not jump on higher platform by using carriage.

02 December 2017, 14:49	#6
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	strange as when I fixed the game for JST/Whdload I removed the protection without even noticing (it was a longtrack which I skipped) Unless there's an issue with those adaptations...

02 December 2017, 17:51	#9
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,644	Thanks for pointing out that this guy had a Youtube account. VERY interesting stuff within, although I wish some of the videos were longer! A lot of focus on Sonic 3D Blast, but I hope they cover more of the other fantastic Traveller Tales games.

02 December 2017, 22:32	#10
Locash Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sunny Wales Posts: 100	Agreed on the channel. His website has a poll every so often to pick the topic of the next video, how the collision works in Leander is one of the options and hopefully it wins at some point. Interesting to see the cross over from his early demo scene code on the Amiga making its way into the games he did for the Megadrive.

04 December 2017, 01:42	#12
demoniac Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: - Posts: 1,686	I believe Skid Row originally released it with the platform bug and later fixed it. The Company version always worked.

18 January 2018, 23:27	#14
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	Fun to watch but the tricks used aren't anything special even if he seems to be quite proud of his protection. At least he didn't access the protection code directly. And there always is a way to place patch code in memory, no matter how much memory the game uses. You do know all that of course, I was just feeling playing Captain Obvious. Thanks for sharing the video though, always interesting to see what coders think of their "inventions".

19 January 2018, 01:36	#16
Locash Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sunny Wales Posts: 100	Looks like my questions may have caused Jon Burton to release a video on Leander . He just put a breakdown of the copy protection up on YouTube. [ Show youtube player ]

19 January 2018, 14:49	#17
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,644	Holy shit that video is amazing! I didn't know they would burn holes on a disk. Brilliant! Leander attacs, BUT ALSO PROTEC.S

19 January 2018, 14:54	#18
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Hmmm, maybe I should merge with this thread: Leander copy-protection Edit: Done!!!

19 January 2018, 15:33	#19
Rotareneg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Kansas, USA Posts: 324	Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if his explanation of "Trying to write to a physical hole in the disk" was true it wouldn't be able to work with write protected disks. Surely it actually just reads from a spot that's either been physically damaged (which seems mighty excessive, anyone mind taking a close look at their Leander floppies to check?) or just has a weak/fuzzy bit and checks that it doesn't get the same result from multiple reads.

19 January 2018, 19:48	#20
Locash Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sunny Wales Posts: 100	Yeah that's confusing me as well, a write protected disk would trigger a failure. Sadly my originals for this are in storage atm so I can't give them an eyeball check.

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